Planetside 2 Classes vs Certs

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by infected

i'm currently curious if you guys are planning to add the suppression mechanic like bf3 has (and the exp rewards for suppressing enemies, as a role).

also do you see any reason why prone should be excluded from ps2?

I hope not. I can imagine how horrible that will become in a game where there will be hundreds of players fighting in the same area. Almost permanent supression when under fire. It's also far too easy to make shooting far too random.

My guess would be that being able to go prone might promote more static combat.

[Memeotis]

Originally Posted by Furber

Man, at first I was so anti-Class system I was considering not even playing PS2. But over the months the more interviews and news I got from the devs made me realize that it's not going to be some super restrictive, tunnel visioned class system. With all the customization flexibility of each class, I'm actually looking forward to seeing how the class system plays out.

One little beef I do still have with the idea of a class system is that it some times creates a more Rock-Paper-Scissors style of gameplay, but hopefully PS2 will not end up like that. I recognize that there are some natural counters among classes, but I want individual skill to be encouraged and rewarded, not some kind of counter-always-wins BS.

I highly doubt that this game will feel like Rock-Paper-Scissors at all. First off there are tonnes of players. Think of WoW and consider the differences between Alterac Valley vs. Gladiator Arenas. The higher the number the smaller the impact of an individual role.

Then there's the fact that it's an FPS. FPS games have much less RPS as well, just compare them to RPGs. The biggest factor is of course the fact that core mechanic of an FPS (aiming) is all down to player skill.

And finally, in TF2, which is a shooter where you do see quite a lot of the RPS, players have a lot more health than in PS2, which results in longer battles, meaning that class specific abilities become more important.

[infected]

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

My guess would be that being able to go prone might promote more static combat.

prone isn't just for campers, its for immersion in the heat of a gun fight. if we can dive for cover and then gather our bearings and then return fire... i call that more interesting than just having a crouch button.

personally, i don't camp. and people who camp will be campers and useless, regardless of whether prone is in the game or not. prone campers are no more of a threat than campers w/o prone. they are just as easy to kill, if not arguably easier. i see no reason prone should be excluded from the game.

you know, crouching behind an obstacle while under heavy fire just doesn't cut it most of the time. you should be shitting your pants under fire and you should be on the floor! prone can increase immersion and adrenaline. and if you're quick to react, it could save your life, for however brief that may be.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by infected

prone isn't just for campers, its for immersion in the heat of a gun fight. if we can dive for cover and then gather our bearings and then return fire... i call that more interesting than just having a crouch button.

personally, i don't camp. and people who camp will be campers and useless, regardless of whether prone is in the game or not. prone campers are no more of a threat than campers w/o prone. they are just as easy to kill, if not arguably easier. i see no reason prone should be excluded from the game.

you know, crouching behind an obstacle while under heavy fire just doesn't cut it most of the time. you should be shitting your pants under fire and you should be on the floor! prone can increase immersion and adrenaline. and if you're quick to react, it could save your life, for however brief that may be.

I agree, it's just what I suspect was the reasoning behind the choice.
Going prone also allows you do use the terrain more effectively than you would be able to with just crouching.

[JesNC]

Originally Posted by infected

prone can increase immersion and adrenaline. and if you're quick to react, it could save your life, for however brief that may be.

Dolphin diving was the bane of the BF series, honestly!

About immersion, I always found it hilarious to see 5 guys lying flat on their belly in the open next to a flag just because they deemed it effective gameplay-wise, when they really should have been looking for some hard cover. So prone might as well kill immersion for some of us.

I just don't think it fits with the style of gameplay we're going to see in PS2. edit: nor with the map design we got to see so far.

[Zalmoxis]

Would be funny to see Max units in prone . Their belly screeching against the ground as they dolphin dive near the hack station for defense/cover.



Also suppresion would be awesome. I never understood why people hate it in BF3. I hate it when in other games, when you get shot at you don't even flinch. You're not Steven Seagal or anything, you're in war and the natural reaction is to stay alive, and when bullets fly by you then you should be afraid and not shoot properly.

[Jeepo]

IMHO the only thing this game is missing feature wise so far is prone. I think it would be a great benefit. Look how bad BC2 was without it. Although in fairness all recent BF/BC games have been poor!

Suppression in theory would be great, but in a game of this scale and with the numbers involved it may be too much. An explosive suppressive effect would be better than a bullet one I feel.

[Ghoest9]

Hyper risky play style is much more closely related to respwning than it is related to healing.

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by Zebasiz

THIS! >.<
So many times I'm chasing someone halfway across the base when they have half health, trying to patch them up. I finally give up. Then I hear it... The most enraging thing one can hear from them...

"NEED A MEDIC!" *pure undiluted rage!!!*

With heal grenades: What do ya'll think of them acting like regular grenades, that is, no IFF on them. If you throw the heal-nade it will hit EVERYONE in its range, friend and foe alike. Makes you have to be a bit careful when using it.

I think that's fantastic! Like any grenade, it would be there to use when you need it, but if you're not smart about how you use it, then you're better off not using it. That's a good trade off for the convenience involved.

[Cordless]

There really does seem to be a thread time-to-bf.
I can see how they are both shooters and otherwise related but they are still seperate games. And its just flat wrong to condemn a game because it lacks the same features bf3 has. Yeah its modern but its not like it raised the bar, its just using a different one.

I see where everyone is coming from on the prone thing but this isnt a game (or a world) where you are scared to die. If you die and the spawns are too far go get a gal and move it up. Or sundy if you spawn from those.
Again with the twitch streams - i dont think anyone wants this to be a game of cower behind the corner and hope you can snag kills. Your individual character just isnt important in the whole battle, so why slow it down just so you live?

[LexTalionis]

Planeside 1 had the cert system well layed out. Those of you that hate on the way the cert system was setup never played past BR 10. Between 10-20 you are able to get enough variety of weapons to play several major roles. And MEd and Engie are necessary if you want to stay in the battle for longer than the time it takes to shoot a single round of bolt driver(which people do use in doors). I liked the packs and cert system. I could shoot down a liberator, quickly switch from med to CUD while dropping out of an airplane, drop an os before i hit the ground, watch my plane hit another enemy and fill some clown in the wrong place full of lead, all as I hit the ground. Got 7 kills in 30 seconds like this last night. Tell me another game that has realisticish movement(not tribes) where you can pull some shit like that off with. : D I don't doubt I'll be able to do this same kind of stuff in PS2, but im just saying. The limited sized pack was an interesting concept. Oh and you can't fly tech or most vehicles in the bigger armor, and you actuallly take a minute to get out of a vehicle or they have an ejection lock, which is my least favorite. Airplanes shouldn't have ejection locks... just decrease the health they have or something. Your ejection seat isnt going to jam everytime you get shot. In PS1 it jams after just 1 or 2 shots, which is bogus, imo.

[I SandRock]

I think both systems have their plusses and minsuses. I feel they should've gone a more in between path still. For instance, i'm going to miss the versatility of picking up your own armor/weapon combination rather than being forced into one like now. Now its just Rexo + HA + AV. Cant do rexo sniper + shotgun, rexo Assault rifle + HA etc. Or light assault + HA, and so on. Just feels like it misses out on customization and being a unique little butterfly. Now im a medic and likely every other dedicated medic is going to be the same as me..

Also don't like that every vehicle is available to everyone right from the start. Still think you should spec into them to unlock them so you have to pick and choose a few.

[outsider]

It's actually Ironic that it took 20 years for RPG MMO's to realise just how restrictive it was for gamers to play in a class based system, and Planetside is leaving a modern system that other companies are trying to emulate, so as to adopt all the failings of an older system.

The present push for innovation is in making classless / leveless systems ( like The Secret World or even Rift ) where players can mix and match combinations as they chose to best fit their playstyle, which is what Planetside 1 is. PS1 suffered in that it didn't have enough variety in skills, which limited ones build options.

While I do like the ability to switch classes on the fly, it's not going to mean much when most outfit leaders are going to pigeonhole you into a certain class anyway ( especially if you show any skill as a medic ).

I'm hoping that the live tests will prove me wrong.

[Tatwi]

It should be noted that Final Fantasy XI was designed back 2000-2002 to allow players to level all of the classes ("jobs") on a single character, as well as allowing for DnD style mutli-classing. Switching classes could be done at any time in a person's house or by speaking to an NPC.

This isn't a whole lot different than Planetside 2's class and cert system, with certs taking the place of multi-classing.

No idea is a new idea.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by outsider

It's actually Ironic that it took 20 years for RPG MMO's to realise just how restrictive it was for gamers to play in a class based system, and Planetside is leaving a modern system that other companies are trying to emulate, so as to adopt all the failings of an older system.

The present push for innovation is in making classless / leveless systems ( like The Secret World or even Rift ) where players can mix and match combinations as they chose to best fit their playstyle, which is what Planetside 1 is. PS1 suffered in that it didn't have enough variety in skills, which limited ones build options.

While I do like the ability to switch classes on the fly, it's not going to mean much when most outfit leaders are going to pigeonhole you into a certain class anyway ( especially if you show any skill as a medic ).

I'm hoping that the live tests will prove me wrong.

How is a leveless/classless system innovative? I seem to remember playing games back in the 90's that allowed that.
Both systems are old and choosing one over the other just comes down to design choice.