Driver/Gunners... NO!

[BlueSkies]

Originally Posted by RodenyC

Nope.Unless they change alot(a shit ton) during beta.Just don't see the teamwork in Planetside anymore.

So.. the only teamwork you saw in Planetside was imposed by vehicle mechanics? Thats terrible...

Also.. as far as game mechanics and teamwork go, they are doing a wonderful job of encouraging teamplay simply be implementing the class system. No more Universal Soldier with every cert and the perfectly optimized loadout.

[KaB]

Originally Posted by BlueSkies

So.. the only teamwork you saw in Planetside was imposed by vehicle mechanics? Thats terrible...

It's just that this only feature can make us thinking they've worked and made decisions about other secondary features in the same way than this one. "Secondary features" that they werent able to share through a simple video with no more than a hundred of players

[SgtExo]

Originally Posted by KaB

It's just that this only feature can make us thinking they've worked and made decisions about other secondary features in the same way than this one. "Secondary features" that they werent able to share through a simple video with no more than a hundred of players

Can you re-phrase that please, its a bit incoherent.

[BlueSkies]

Originally Posted by KaB

It's just that this only feature can make us thinking they've worked and made decisions about other secondary features in the same way than this one. "Secondary features" that they werent able to share through a simple video with no more than a hundred of players

Simple fact is, teamwork is created by... A TEAM. The fact that they are building in VOIP so that even pick up squads will have voice communication, creating classes so that players have to rely upon each other, and encouraging outfit specialization, is going to bring the teamwork in PS2 leaps and bounds beyond that in PS1.

[KaB]

I can enumerate a lot of games which have TEAM, they have absolutely no working teamplay tho, cause they failed it.

I imagine how hard it can be to think that PS2 still can be a failure for premature fanboys, but you wont be able to ignore it if it's finally the case.

[Littleman]

Originally Posted by KaB

I can enumerate a lot of games which have TEAM, they have absolutely no working teamplay tho, cause they failed it.

I imagine how hard it can be to think that PS2 still can be a failure for premature fanboys, but you wont be able to ignore it if it's finally the case.

Forcing a tank driver to find a gunner doesn't equate to teamwork either. It more often than not for non-buddy/outfit born tank crews meant the driver was hauling around a kill whore. There isn't teamwork in that.

Teamwork should happen because people want to work together.

Playing solo should be punishable by being inefficient, not incapable.

P.S. Forcing teamwork only works if it's a single loser and a single from the opposite sex working together... in fairy tales.

[BlueSkies]

Originally Posted by KaB

I can enumerate a lot of games which have TEAM, they have absolutely no working teamplay tho, cause they failed it.

I imagine how hard it can be to think that PS2 still can be a failure for premature fanboys, but you wont be able to ignore it if it's finally the case.

It comes down to the players more than the game. "You can lead a horse to water..." and all that. The most they can do is give us some tools that facilitate teamwork (which they appear to be doing), beyond that, it is up to the players to function as a team. You can say all you want about "premature fanboys" or whatever, but you seem to want everything handed to you on a plate. How are the devs supposed to force teamwork on the level you seem to want without really screwing up the game? Here is a bit of advice: Find an outfit that operates on a level you enjoy (in terms of teamwork, skill level, humor, etc) and run with them. You do that and it really stops mattering what tools the game provides, you will have the teamwork you so desire.

[KaB]

Originally Posted by Littleman

Forcing a tank driver to find a gunner doesn't equate to teamwork either.

This sentence makes no sense. Who'll be "forcing a tank driver to find a gunner" ? SOE ?

And if you're trying to tell me that one player in a vehicle will bring more teamplay than two, well I think we can end this right now.

Originally Posted by BlueSkies

Find an outfit that operates on a level you enjoy (in terms of teamwork, skill level, humor, etc) and run with them.

What if the one I want is the tank with the gunner and driver splitted ?

[fod]

Originally Posted by Littleman

If this is how you feel, you're actually barking at the wrong guy. I don't recall Ratstomper being opposed to the idea of giving drivers the option to have a dedicated gunner, I mean, why would he or anyone else that shares his opinion care?

It's the guys that want to force every tank driver to find a dedicated gunner that are the ones wanting to force their way on others on the misconception that the quick and fragile light tank plays anything like a slow, durable medium tank.

all i know is he was trying to tell everyone what is "fun" i explained i have more fun as a separate driver and separate gunner and it blew up from there

all i want is a separate gunner and im happy - 95% of my playtime in ps1 has been driving with my friends as gunners, i just dont want whats "fun" for me to be taken away from planetside

[maradine]

Originally Posted by KaB

What if the one I want is the tank with the gunner and driver splitted ?

Then you're looking for another game, it would seem. I do hope they cert in the split for those who want it, though.

[Littleman]

Originally Posted by KaB

This sentence makes no sense. Who'll be "forcing a tank driver to find a gunner" ? SOE ?

Don't play dumb. Or maybe...? If tanks require a dedicated driver and a dedicated gunner, then drivers will be forced to find a gunner, even if it's as easy as asking an outfit mate to gun in their tank, they still NEED someone to gun for them.

Thankfully, tanks ARE one man capable, but having someone in the secondary turret makes them vastly superior to just the one guy.

And if you're trying to tell me that one player in a vehicle will bring more teamplay than two, well I think we can end this right now.

If your insinuating teamwork ends at the number of people there are in a tank, I know we can end this right now. You can throw 100 guys in a tank, it's ass isn't getting any less fragile to RPG fire. It doesn't matter how many heads the tank has, a tank that fights alone, dies alone.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Originally Posted by BlueSkies

Simple fact is, teamwork is created by... A TEAM. The fact that they are building in VOIP so that even pick up squads will have voice communication, creating classes so that players have to rely upon each other, and encouraging outfit specialization, is going to bring the teamwork in PS2 leaps and bounds beyond that in PS1.

As long as there's a mute option...

I don't want to be gal driving if there's some punk playing "ride of the valkyries" over the top of my orders...

[not talking to Blueskies here, this is a general comment]
Also, my version of fun is different to yours, and my version of skill/efficiency/teamwork/[insert word here] is also different to yours.

The key is to make the game (certs) flexible.

[Ratstomper]

Originally Posted by fod

all i know is he was trying to tell everyone what is "fun" i explained i have more fun as a separate driver and separate gunner and it blew up from there

all i want is a separate gunner and im happy - 95% of my playtime in ps1 has been driving with my friends as gunners, i just dont want whats "fun" for me to be taken away from planetside

Actually, you're the one insisting that others way wasn't "fun" for you. I was making the point that the new system makes more sense and is more rewarding than the old system.

Ya know...things that are actual tangible pieces of logic.

[Retaliation]

Originally Posted by fod

all i know is he was trying to tell everyone what is "fun" i explained i have more fun as a separate driver and separate gunner and it blew up from there

all i want is a separate gunner and im happy - 95% of my playtime in ps1 has been driving with my friends as gunners, i just dont want whats "fun" for me to be taken away from planetside

Making drivers be forced to have gunners to fight would be you telling everyone else what is "fun". Fortunately the devs have found a solution to that conundrum by giving both the driver and gunner guns. That people get caught up on the idea that a secondary gunner must have a gun weaker than or equal to the primary gun isn't the devs fault. I can think of so many ways to make a secondary gunner preferable to simply taking another tank (without factoring resources mind you).

[BraavikStal]

I've always preferred to be able to control the main cannon as the driver in a tank. I know where I'm going and where I need to aim. It would be annoying to leave it up a stranger, hell even the secondary gunners are useless most of the time.