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View Poll Results: Why is it a good thing for non-snipers to OSK snipers?
Because it is more realistic 3 27.27%
Because it is more balanced 5 45.45%
Better gameplay; snipers should learn to use cover 5 45.45%
Because this is a MMOFPS, and the S is for shooter, not sniper 4 36.36%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-10-06, 08:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #61
Xyntech
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Re: One-Shot Kills: only snipers can be OSK'd


I wonder if some people are concerned because they think that hitting someones head with a sniper rifle will be as easy as it is in Planetside.

Once you get the hang of the COF, sniping in Planetside is far from the hardest.

I'm only okay with OSOK head shots if sniping is a lot harder than PS1. Ideally, someone should pick up a sniper rifle for the first time, try to get a headshot on a stationary target and miss completely.
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Old 2011-10-06, 08:36 PM   [Ignore Me] #62
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Re: One-Shot Kills: only snipers can be OSK'd


They already said bullet trajectories will be in and must be considered for much longer ranges. With sprinting and blending in better than the brilliant reds, golds and purples of PS1, headshots won't be the easiest to accomplish.

Not to mention it didn't matter where you hit in PS1 - you hit, you did the damage. All or nothing. If the enemy lagged a bit, they were dead from the second, insta-hitting shot before they could move away.

I mean, an HSR shouldn't get a OSK, but a bolt driver equivalent? I think so.

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Old 2011-10-07, 12:40 AM   [Ignore Me] #63
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Re: One-Shot Kills: only snipers can be OSK'd


Originally Posted by Hamma View Post
It's quite apparent that you just hate snipers and want to remove that playstyle from FPS game
I don't hate snipers.

And I don't want to remove their playstyle from the game.

I appreciate them. When I was hit by one, I knew it was either move now or die. Being sniped in PS had exactly the same effect as being OSK'd, except it didn't run up someone else's kill count at the expense of the vast majority of the other players.

They had a very positive effect on the game without being capable of OSK's. They can suppress an area very well without having godlike OSK capability.

Snipers should not have OSK, and neither should anyone else, against anything in their class. This to all classes. Planes, tanks, MAXes, infantry, and anything else.

I will say it again, so some of those earlier posters who haven't even read anything in the entire thread before posting can be referred to it, again: OSK's from a heavy class, such as MBT's, even multiple kills are to be expected. I marvel that anyone could claim to have read this thread, where I stated that, then say that I don't want that in the game. It is completely appropriate.

But one cert tree in the any class, whether it is planes, tanks, buggies, infantry, or anything else should not have OSK ability on anything that is at or above their class.

To make this obvious enough that it will also be obvious that someone has not read this thread before jumping in, shrieking and gibbering that I don't want no one no where to have no weapons ever, for anything, or whatever the next rebuttal will will be, here it is: One Shot Kills are to be expected from MBT's. Even a light tank, if it hits you with its main gun, should expect a OSK. But anyone else?

Remember, they removed the instagib capability of mines on MAXes. Partially because other classes of infantry, including, laughably, cloakers, could take a mine hit and survive.

I don't think there were many people unsubscribing from PS due to no snipers having OSK capability.

I will say it yet again, so it will show just how ridiculous it is for people to tell me what I am saying, when I never said it:

OSK"s: Okay from higher-class vehicles to lesser classes of vehicle or soldier. A hit from an MBT should down a mosquito, if it has the appropriate ammo selected. A hit from an MBT should have the splash, if appropriate ammo is selected, to kill any infantry that isn't in MAX armor, in one shot. A direct hit from an MBT should kill a MAX, or, at least, or bring it extremely low on health and armor.

Flails could OSK multiple people, including MAXes. I don't know if they could OSK any full-health vehicles

And no OSK's from any infantry to any other infantry, regardless of whether it's a MAX, cloaker, HA, or whatever.

However, if one is so in love with the idea of OSK snipers, then, if he is being rational, and not just a sniper fanboy, he should be okay also if the tables are turned and others can OSK snipers, assuming they can even get close enough to do so, but snipers can't OSK others. Isn't it enough to be able to hide far from the front and strike from afar? That isn't good enough? To have more range than any other anti-infantry man-packable weapon in the game?

When something is only good for a very small percentage of the playerbase, then it isn't something that needs to be in the game. According to T-Ray, it isn't likely that a game will cater to the colorblind, though there are probably fewer snipers in PS, as a percentage, than there are colorblind people in the potential playerbase. If they don't bother to cater to as large a percentage of the population as the colorblind, why would they cater to snipers by giving them an ability no other infantry have, especially when catering to the colorblind would not have a negative effect on balance?

And who says all sniper shots will be long-range? Snipers never use their weapon in the same room as their adversaries? All that matters is that the person, like the people in Schindler's List, sit still for a second. We want a game where everyone has to run ceaselessly? That is a GREAT augmentation to gameplay? So, snipers can OSK someone with a headshot, but HA's can't? MAX's can't? Not balanced.

Infantry OSK's are not balanced. Not for up-close, not for cloakers with uber-knives, not for MAX's, not for anybody. Giving OSK to anyone may be what some of you regard as being necessary to attract more people to the game, but they thought that about the BFR's, too.

Punishing people for standing still is punishing someone anytime they have a lag spike, which is more of an exploit than some wonderful improvement to the game.
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Old 2011-10-07, 01:17 AM   [Ignore Me] #64
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Re: One-Shot Kills: only snipers can be OSK'd


Well said, but I'm not entirely sure I agree.

1). A boomer will kill infantry up to and including MAXes in a single blast, and can potentially affect several people at once (though that's reaching). There is a precedent for it in PS, it just takes some combination of luck and skill... much like head shots.

2) The devs have stated that melee from behind will do extra damage. Between that and potential ways to up your base melee damage, it may be quite possible to OSOK non-MAX infantry as any infantry class, including infiltrators who will probably get lots of opportunities to do precisely that.

"The slow blade penetrates the shield".

3) Engineers and most likely infiltrators will have deployable explosives. Given the enhanced lethality of PS2, I expect these will be insta-kills against most/all infantry, and probably ATVs as well. There may be different kinds of explosives tailored to be even more lethal against a particular target. Think "Claymores and anti-tank mines". And while an AT mine might not kill a tank in one shot, it may well blow off a tread or otherwise cripple it.

So given these likely examples of Instant Death, it seems plausible to expect sniper head-shots to be in the same boat.


Potential Mitigating Factors:

Armor upgrades might include improved helmets that reduce head-shot damage.
Shield choice may affect your vulnerability to various types of attacks.
Shields with a high maximum capacity may be able to take all the damage from a sniper round.
It may be possible to carry an "incoming round detector" that will give you at least some warning before you're actually hit.

So yes, I think OSOK sniper head shots will be a part of PS2.

But is that a good thing?

On the one hand, it fits in with the "Modern FPS Features" Sony is using to entice a wider FPS player market. All those Really Popular FPSes have OSOK head shots. Sony wants people who play those Really Popular FPSes to play Planetside 2. 1 + 1 = 2.
In fact, the only other FPS franchise I can think of that doesn't have OSOK sniper headshots is Tribes/Tribes 2. Tribes 3 doesn't count, as far as I'm concerned, one way or the other... kinda like the Highlander sequels.
On the other hand, dying when you have absolutely no say in the matter and don't even know what killed you and from where can be Really Annoying. This, incidentally, is an argument for kill cams. You needn't reveal their precise position, just their direction and approximately what you looked like from their perspective. Sticking the camera half way between the two of you would work for that just fine. You don't get to see their immediate surroundings, but still have an idea of just how exposed you were from where they were.

When you consider the Increased Pace of PS2, deaths will almost certainly be Less Of A Deal. One of the dev's goals IIRC, is to get you back into combat faster after you've died. So getting your brain pan aired out (and death in general barring equipment timers and lost per-life resource cost gear) just isn't that big a deal.
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Old 2011-10-07, 02:06 AM   [Ignore Me] #65
Traak
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Re: One-Shot Kills: only snipers can be OSK'd


Interesting points, NapalmEnema.

In all, from what you are saying, PS2 could be a lot more lethal, so to speak, by more methods, than PS1.

Last edited by Traak; 2011-10-07 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 2011-10-07, 03:09 AM   [Ignore Me] #66
Raka Maru
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Ok Trakk,

According to you, snipers are:

Selfish, psychopathic, power hungry, control freaks who should wear sheer nighties rather than armor. They like to pick off helpless **** in prison camps because they are nazi's.

Look at your posts above. How can you expect any positive results from this thread?

You don't want osk's, ok we get that. Just chill.

I like playing my sniper. It would be nice to land a headshot and watch you drop. It would look cool if my really good shot sent your stationary or slow moving reaver spiraling down to the hard ground. I would love to see the gunner go limp after a hole appears in his helmet while you drive away gunner less.

It's not cowardly of you to squat behind a sandbag wall. You're not paranoid if you think twice about stopping in the open.

Finding a place to sprint to BEFORE you jump out of cover would be a good idea, it's not me trying to show my supreme command of the area between the two places of cover.

Planetside is my favorite game. It has been since it first got out of beta. I'm not any of the above you described.
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Old 2011-10-07, 04:51 AM   [Ignore Me] #67
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Re: One-Shot Kills: only snipers can be OSK'd


Provided sniper does a lot of dmg without necessarily being OSOK, you will very often see a guy drop when you headshot him, that or he'll be dead because your teammate grunt will be finishing the job, which is exactly the definition of support by fire which is one of sniper's job.
It is desirable because raising headshots to 2-to-kill mitigates the "random death by sniper nest" by an order higher than just 2. This without losing the support value of snipers to their grunts. In a frontal outdoor confrontation, the army with sniper support will face near-deadly wounded ennemies, and snipers will insta-kill any already wounded ennemy.
This also enforces the role of medics in the field, as being full health will become far more important
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Old 2011-10-07, 05:35 AM   [Ignore Me] #68
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Re: One-Shot Kills: only snipers can be OSK'd


This is something that should really wait until Beta to be discussed further... Kinda pointless saying it's OP when you don't know. And no, you don't know. You can't pretend to know. If it sucks in Beta they will remove it until then all argument against it is kinda pointless... I would at least like to see it implemented. To not at least be willing to see it. You sir are taking your own words and making them you.

Originally Posted by Traak View Post
I don't argue that some enjoy the selfish, solipsistic, possibly sociopathic thrill of terrorizing others with little effort or threat of retaliation.

Last edited by xSlideShow; 2011-10-07 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 2011-10-07, 07:44 AM   [Ignore Me] #69
Traak
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Re: One-Shot Kills: only snipers can be OSK'd


Originally Posted by Kalbuth View Post
Provided sniper does a lot of dmg without necessarily being OSOK, you will very often see a guy drop when you headshot him, that or he'll be dead because your teammate grunt will be finishing the job, which is exactly the definition of support by fire which is one of sniper's job.
It is desirable because raising headshots to 2-to-kill mitigates the "random death by sniper nest" by an order higher than just 2. This without losing the support value of snipers to their grunts. In a frontal outdoor confrontation, the army with sniper support will face near-deadly wounded ennemies, and snipers will insta-kill any already wounded ennemy.
This also enforces the role of medics in the field, as being full health will become far more important
Brilliant.
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Old 2011-10-07, 08:59 AM   [Ignore Me] #70
Xyntech
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Re: One-Shot Kills: only snipers can be OSK'd


Originally Posted by Kalbuth View Post
Provided sniper does a lot of dmg without necessarily being OSOK, you will very often see a guy drop when you headshot him, that or he'll be dead because your teammate grunt will be finishing the job, which is exactly the definition of support by fire which is one of sniper's job.
It is desirable because raising headshots to 2-to-kill mitigates the "random death by sniper nest" by an order higher than just 2. This without losing the support value of snipers to their grunts. In a frontal outdoor confrontation, the army with sniper support will face near-deadly wounded ennemies, and snipers will insta-kill any already wounded ennemy.
This also enforces the role of medics in the field, as being full health will become far more important
I think snipers could use a buff from PS1, but I think that goes without saying given that most weapons in general will have faster TTK's. Your solution sounds like a good way to handle it.

I don't think OSK's would be bad either, but I really don't know that for sure.

Beta will tell.
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Old 2011-10-07, 10:20 AM   [Ignore Me] #71
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Re: One-Shot Kills: only snipers can be OSK'd


Originally Posted by Kalbuth View Post
mitigates the "random death by sniper nest"
I'm quite ok with that amount of damage...but this is silly. It's absolutely not a random death:

You were explicitly targeted and shot at with the intent of you dying.
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Old 2011-10-07, 10:21 AM   [Ignore Me] #72
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Re: One-Shot Kills: only snipers can be OSK'd


^^
lol
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Old 2011-10-07, 11:03 AM   [Ignore Me] #73
Kalbuth
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Re: One-Shot Kills: only snipers can be OSK'd


Originally Posted by Rbstr View Post
I'm quite ok with that amount of damage...but this is silly. It's absolutely not a random death:

You were explicitly targeted and shot at with the intent of you dying.
Random in the sense : "it's difficult to achieve, but out of the 10+ snipers targetting you, 1 will headshot". Not really random per se, just showing that being difficult is no justification of being OSOK, because of numbers.

Last edited by Kalbuth; 2011-10-07 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 2011-10-07, 11:14 AM   [Ignore Me] #74
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Re: One-Shot Kills: only snipers can be OSK'd


Originally Posted by Kalbuth View Post
Random in the sense : "it's difficult to achieve, but out of the 10+ snipers targetting you, 1 will headshot". Not really random per se, just showing that being difficult is no justification of being OSOK, because of numbers.
That is of course assuming you are the only target on the field. Which in the scale of Planetside alone, not even getting into Planetside 2, is very unlikely.

And if you did have 10 snipers working in tandem (worst case scenario) hell even 2-3 snipers working together; you would STILL instantly die. Snipers in Planetside 1 do this quite often. So the whole OSOK argument in this case is dead in the water on that alone.

So still, your death was "random" in either case. One shot kills or not.
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Old 2011-10-07, 11:24 AM   [Ignore Me] #75
Kalbuth
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Re: One-Shot Kills: only snipers can be OSK'd


Originally Posted by IceyCold View Post
That is of course assuming you are the only target on the field. Which in the scale of Planetside alone, not even getting into Planetside 2, is very unlikely.

And if you did have 10 snipers working in tandem (worst case scenario) hell even 2-3 snipers working together; you would STILL instantly die. Snipers in Planetside 1 do this quite often. So the whole OSOK argument in this case is dead in the water on that alone.

So still, your death was "random" in either case. One shot kills or not.
I've no problem seeing coordinated effort being rewarded. Read my posts above, I'm outlining exactly what you said.

Anyway, beta will tell.
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