"Point popups"

[Skitrel]

Your argument is so completely narrow and subjective that's it sickening.

Pot. Meet kettle.

The argument that flashy numbers are the only thing that keeps players hooked is just idiotic.

Point out where exactly I said this. Do not forge imaginary arguments from things I have not said.

[Death2All]

Originally Posted by megamold

and exagerating an minimalising his point does not make you right

Ignroing mine doesn't make you right either. If people don't like a feature, they shouldn't be pigeonholed into having to use it because it's an addictive feature. If you dislike a feature, especially one that would be so easy to make it toggleable. you should have that choice.

[megamold]

no it doesnt, and yes we should have the choice, we really should.
but that doesnt mean that they will, i wish i could turn off the commercials on my tv, but i cant. i wish i could go a day without getting whole heaps of commercials stuffed into my mailbox but i cant.

and like i said before, the devs might not have a choice in the matter, it might be one of the requirements SOE set for them since it is a proven technique and SOE want to make money first and foremost.

[Aurmanite]

Originally Posted by Skitrel

You might not want to be. You're going to be though. In fact, that's what games have always been about since the days of the arcade.

"What can we do to addict players better and make them put more coins in the machine?"

The more you play, the more chance of you putting money in the machine. That's why the game will do absolutely everything it can to keep you playing. Not a bad thing, it is ultimately a part of why you enjoy the game in fact, though you won't recognise the psychological factors causing that, they're there, and they're messing with you.

Cod's taking it to a new level lately, even implementing it in their DLC release strategies. Anyone ever noticed how communities get restless? When there's no news and nothing to distract them they start looking at the flaws of the game and complaining. Battlefield is seeing that BIG TIME lately with the huge amount of time since last patch/DLC. Cod's counter? Release maps 1 at a time instead of in a pack, constantly give the players something else to talk about other than their problems. They forget the negatives, enjoy the game more, and spend more.

People don't realise the amount of psychology that goes into decisions in games, popup point announcements are one of those things. While in theory, talking about them on a forum, not in game, not playing, it's easier to dissect and say, when not under their influence "These are bad". In game however is an entirely different thing, and those little points make people feel good, over, and over, and over, and over again. They have exactly the same repetitive positive effects the feelings of achievements players of Zynga games get doing their little repetitive tasks in Farmvillemoblordskitchensimwhatever crap they're making now.

Ultimately, character progression, XP, unlocking crap. One can argue that NONE of those things should have ever entered FPS games. They're all unnecessary, they simply lock the player away from using stuff. The entire system is just a psychological tool to make you play more, and always has been.

This guy knows what he's talking about. Don't dismiss this post just because you don't understand it.

Read it again if you have to.

[Gandhi]

Nobody complains about it because it's one of those minor things that makes near as no difference. It was introduced at some point as a gimmick that just never went away.

I get the psychological argument, but I'd bet there's no difference between flashing the XP gained in the middle of the screen and having a scrolling display off to the side that shows the last 5 things earned. I know from experience optional features are a bit of a pain in the ass for developers, but that extra work is usually worth it. So just make it toggleable. Default it to flash up in the center, with an option to move it to a scrolling display on the side or to turn it off entirely.

[megamold]

wherever they put it, it needs to be highly visible or it needs to be a sound.
something clearly seen or heard, otherwise it wont be effective

think of pavlovs dog, if it cant see the flashing light it wont react to it by drooling all over the place

[sylphaen]

Guys, pop-ups & co are just one aspect of a more important requirement:
CUSTOMIZABLE UI

Ask for the right thing instead of going through details one by one.

[Gandhi]

Originally Posted by megamold

wherever they put it, it needs to be highly visible or it needs to be a sound.
something clearly seen or heard, otherwise it wont be effective

I don't think so, as long as it's visible it'll be just as effective. Whether it's flashing violently in the center of your view or scrolling off to the side you're still subconsciously aware that you've earned something, our brains are pretty good at picking out that sort of thing.

Pavlov actually trained his dog to react to all kinds of things, not just bells and flashing lights

[Figment]

Please stop the quarrelling lads. There are better issues to get worked up over. :P


World of Tanks allows this type of thing to be modded btw. They even allow the player to completely determine what information is shown, health, marker and otherwise. How about we get to chose what way it is shown, are able to modify the markers and what is shown when damage is dealt or kills are made?

Could this be tied to cosmetic purchases in the cash shop? Or simply to implants like Enhanced Targetting? Get some alternatives going, see if they can't eventually implement all the variants and killtracking so you can just select which things you want to see and where you want to see them.

[Zulthus]

I don't need someone rubbing psychological bullshit in my face telling me what I do or do not want. I know for certain that I have NEVER and WILL NEVER ever like or want some stupid flashy numbers telling me "ooooh, you scored a 'NOTHER kill! Wheeee! teeheheehe!!!"

I don't give a shit if people want to use it, but I for one do not.

Originally Posted by Skitrel

It is one the most minor gripes in the world, doesn't affect gameplay in the slightest and so on.

Oh, good, then there's no reason to keep it.

[Trolltaxi]

Actually, D2A is minimalising Skitrels's argument way less than Skitrel is overemphasising the importance of popups.

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

I don't need someone rubbing psychological bullshit in my face telling me what I do or do not want. I know for certain that I have NEVER and WILL NEVER ever like or want some stupid flashy numbers telling me "ooooh, you scored a 'NOTHER kill! Wheeee! teeheheehe!!!"

I don't give a shit if people want to use it, but I for one do not.




Oh, good, then there's no reason to keep it.

Not affecting gameplay != not affecting player psychology

[megamold]

Originally Posted by Gandhi

I don't think so, as long as it's visible it'll be just as effective. Whether it's flashing violently in the center of your view or scrolling off to the side you're still subconsciously aware that you've earned something, our brains are pretty good at picking out that sort of thing.

Pavlov actually trained his dog to react to all kinds of things, not just bells and flashing lights

true, but a line of blue text in a box of blue chat wont work

[Death2All]

Originally Posted by Figment

Please stop the quarrelling lads. There are better issues to get worked up over. :P


World of Tanks allows this type of thing to be modded btw. They even allow the player to completely determine what information is shown, health, marker and otherwise. How about we get to chose what way it is shown, are able to modify the markers and what is shown when damage is dealt or kills are made?

Could this be tied to cosmetic purchases in the cash shop? Or simply to implants like Enhanced Targetting? Get some alternatives going, see if they can't eventually implement all the variants and killtracking so you can just select which things you want to see and where you want to see them.

According to these guys you shouldn't be given the choice to mod it. You're forced to have pop ups whether or not you like them or not. You aren't allowed to mod them. That's why this thread is so irritating.

Zulthus nailed it.

Originally Posted by Zulthus

I don't need someone rubbing psychological bullshit in my face telling me what I do or do not want. I know for certain that I have NEVER and WILL NEVER ever like or want some stupid flashy numbers telling me "ooooh, you scored a 'NOTHER kill! Wheeee! teeheheehe!!!"

I don't give a shit if people want to use it, but I for one do not.

If you don't want a feature, as miniscule as exp popping up, why am I not allowed to toggle it off? Why would you argue against it? Don't tell me what I want.

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Point out where exactly I said this. Do not forge imaginary arguments from things I have not said.

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Get over it, popups are going to stay whether gamers SAY they dislike them or not. They're in games now because they give the player a cathartic feeling of accomplishment, constantly. They'll stick around because it's part of what creates and maintains player addiction, whether the player realises it and bitches about it mistakenly or not.

Psychology is fun.

Originally Posted by Skitrel

You may think this, but psychologically it creates a cathartic release and that's why it's become a staple of fps games. Gaming psychology, it's part of what creates and maintains an addiction in players.

This debate won't change anything at all, it's going to be in the game because it's part of what sucks in and maintains players playing more. Yes, even you folks that say you dislike it.

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Nothing, in the eyes of the player. In the eyes of game designers it's removing a key feature that plays a part in gamer psychology and addiction. Making successful games isn't just about making a good game anymore, that's part of it, the other part is the psychology, how to make players play more, play longer, and invest themselves in a game. For this reason, I seriously do not see it going away, and fully understand that.

Don't you think it's wrong to rely on subliminally message the player into liking the game with mind numbing numbers. You did say that that's not all there is to it, so I was wrong to say that's the entire basis of your argument. However, it certainly is the main focal point of your argument. You're making the importance of pop up exp seem more important than it really is. It's not like if pop up exp isn't in the game then it's going to be colossal disaster that no one will play. Besides that's not what I'm asking, I'm merely asking for an option to disable it if you so choose.

[megamold]

well i'm not saying that i think popups have to be in the game, i would love it if they made it just an option.
what i'm saying is that this descision might not be up to higby and his crew, it was most likely made by SOE and publisher trumps developer everytime

and no its not like the game will bomb without it but if every 1 in 50 players plays more because of it ( and other addiction tricks) and therefore spends more money, it will be mission accomplished for SOE