A few things that Matt Higby needs to realize

[roguy]

Originally Posted by basti

15 years of FPS?

Well, then you are like me. My first FPS was Wolfenstein 3D. Played Doom, Duke3D, Quake, Tribes, Unreal and UT (awww, good ol UT :/ ) all that stuff. Pretty much all of them.
(...)
Now, over time, FPS games had less crap in them, and the fun elements got even better. But then, something happend (Counter-Strike maybe?) and slowly everyone was like "Modern day FPS" and people started to copy elements and just add a little each time, playing it save rather than trying something.

You're also being guilty of nostalgia.

Wolfeinstein -> Doom: No innovation whatsoever.
Doom -> Duke 3D: interactive environments maybe? Nothing else.
Duke -> Quake: 3d graphics and mouselook.
Quake -> UT: Secondary firing modes and that's it.

All those games were "same old shit/modern day fps" back in their day.

In the 90s the marketed saturated with arena shooters set in the future, the early 2000s with WWII games, late 2000 was modern warfare and now we're going towards futuristic shooters again (new ghost recon, halo 4, black ops 2, BF2143).

[Badjuju]

Originally Posted by Jinxsey

Suggesting something sounds like bad game design, without identifying specific issues (film grain effects? kill-streak rewards?) is of limited value.

Any good beta tester will tell you, identify specific issues, identify specific causes, make sure they are repeatable and then call it a problem.

Old games = better, new games = crap, just sounds like nostalgia talking.

Homefront failed because it had sloppy writing, unballanced killstreak rewards, tiny overly cluttered maps and weapons copy-pasted from a dozzen other shooters it was directly competeing with. It did nothing new, and did the old stuff worse. This dosen't tell you that new shooters are rubbish, it tells you that if you don't do something different, or do it better, you're going to fail. Planetside has always been about big maps, big teams and persistent play.

From all the vids I've seen so far, PS2 looks like PS1 with BF3 visuals, that dosen't make me sweat, that makes me grin, because you know what I like about modern FPS games? They're slick and they're gorgeous.

This...using mechanics seen in bf3 and cod are to make the game feel more realistic and thus more immersive (at least for me). I don't think these mechanics dumb the game down at all, and I don't think they are what sets the tone of the game. If there are specific features you dislike then name them or this argument will go no where. Personally my only concern at this point is the balance of the ttk, but like most issues it is to early to worry about until we play the beta and see how it fits and how they adjust it.

[Baron]

Originally Posted by WildVS

Yeah immersion will rule the day when we have hello kitty™ skinned Sunderers and an unimaginable variety of masked soldiers running around.

hello kitty is registered trade mark ....I fixed it. Your credit card statement will reflect a charge of $1.99 from Sony Online Entertainment

[Purple]

i little advice for OP. dont go into marketing with an attitude like this nothing you make will do well. you need to take sucessfull elements from others sometimes to make a great product yourslef and get a shot at their consumers as well. PS2 will be competing with COD and BF and they are aiming to win.

[Kaw]

Originally Posted by The Kush

Agreed. Modern FPS suck for the strategic, team oriented, and skill driven players.

Why?

Because they are dumbing the game down and making it so dumbasses stand a chance.

Results?

Incredibly boring

Can you explain how they are dumbing the game down?

If the problem is TTK, Counter Strike had a much shorter TTK and it is lauded as one of the most team oriented, skill driven FPSes out there. From what I've seen, the TTK in PS2 is noticeably longer than in COD.

If the problem is the spawn system, what alternative to squad spawning is there besides running a kilometer to get back into the fight? I never played PS1, but I would stop playing very quickly if every death ment a five minute walk.

Is the problem the ability to aim down sights or to sprint?

Until somebody can elaborate on what "modern fps elements" are, I'm going to find it difficult to agree with the complaints in this thread.

[Atlas]

Was going to post a long reply, but i'll just shorten it down to two bits...

Can those who are doing it stop calling people who play faster paced games dumbasses, stop that crap...It stinks.

And wait until you've got a hands on experience of the game until you start a "I know better than a paid game developer" thread, playing and watching football are very different from each other.

[Ieyasu]

Originally Posted by roguy

Yeah I'm trying to imagine how the Mona Lisa would have turned out if Leonardo DaVinci had a blog...

"Omg, obvious rip-off of the Madonna!! It's for casuals!!!"

"Wtf you promised us a blonde!! Leo, why do you hate your painting! This is a slap in the FACE!!"

I like the DaVinci Blog idea. I saw it more along the lines of this though:

1. Leonardo announces on his blog that he is beginging a new portrait
2. people post their enthusism for the project and shower him with love
3. he makes rough sketch on canvas and posts picture
4. people say its awesome and applaud
5. he begins to fill in some of the background
6. people applaud but a few people think it would be better to place the background in a evening setting
7. he begins to work on the main subject of the portrait and people are still supportive, but a few think the eyes are too close together or the subjects nose is too long
8. work is coming right along and he posts another picture to update the followers.
9. followers are now up in arms because some think the painting should be set in the evening, others think she should be wearing a hat and still others are saying her flesh tones are not realistic looking
10. Leonardo assures everyone that its a work in progress and that hes not done working on the flesh tones and will look into the evening setting and hat
11. people dont hear back from Leonardo for a week or two and begin to speculate on whats going wrong with the project and offering advice on how Leonardo should be painting his portrait. Based on previous portraits theyve seen done by other artists they are just sure DaVinci is doing it all wrong.

and here is where it can go one of two ways

12(a). Leonardo unveils the Mona Lisa and it is set on the moon with green spacemen sitting on Lisas shoulders. she has blue skin, eye stalks sticking out of her head and is wearing a hat the same shade as her clowns nose.

12(b). Leonardo unveils the Mona Lisa and it is pretty much how he had planned it to look when he started out. He has made a few revisions and changed a couple small things about it, but in the end its remarkably close to what he had planned it to be when he started the project.

I myself prefer (b) in this made up little Davinci Blog Scenario. I know from reading through this thread and the others that have been popping up lately that there are quite a few fans of (a) out there though.

[Purple]

Originally Posted by The Kush

Agreed. Modern FPS suck for the strategic, team oriented, and skill driven players.

Why?

Because they are dumbing the game down and making it so dumbasses stand a chance.

Results?

Incredibly boring

of corse you think that. i know players like you anytime you get killed you will be like that dumbass ran me over this game is broken if someone can do that to a skilled player like me! or the guy killed me by swimging around the building the pussy was scared to face me head on!

dont play games if you can take a loss, it is going to happen alot.

[roguy]

Originally Posted by Ieyasu

I myself prefer (b) in this made up little Davinci Blog Scenario. I know from reading through this thread and the others that have been popping up lately that there are quite a few fans of (a) out there though.

Yup but you can also add (c) He had no bloody internet, he barely asked anyone for their opinions on it since he probably knew better than anyone else anyway and you have the world's most famous and loved painting.

I struggle to find a well-made example of art designed by commitee.

[Biohazard]

Originally Posted by DiabloTigerSix

Why am I concerned? Well for the start, the gunplay of PS2 shown so far looks awfully like CoD, that means it looks just like in most generic first person shooters and it doesn't stand out.

I'm sorry, but the gunplay mechanics of a shooter is the first thing that stand out to me, and I honestly don't think that Planetside2 even remotely resembles Call of Duty, at all. CoD's gunplay is; close quarters, very low TTK, run-and-gun, arcade, hit scan. The most prominent parts being run-and-gun, hit scan. Where as PS2 looks to be; favoring medium to long range, moderate TTK, aim-down-the-sights, tactical, ballistically-simulated. I say PS2 is tactical, in that I feel that when one runs into a room it will require a small bit of planning, and you will do it to accomplish an objective rather than for the kills. Verses in CoD, where I could play it almost on reflex and muscle memory, usually with kills in mind.

What dose "the gunplay of PS2 shown so far looks awfully like CoD" mean?

[GameCobra]

Scale is the big seller for this game, and Scale is what other games lacked. This game feels more geared towards a BattleField experience, but we want this game to be militaristic, which is what i think Planetside's specialty is: A military game.

[Ieyasu]

Originally Posted by WildVS

Since the release of WOW the average life span of an MMO is 1 year. PS2 will do nothing to increase that average.

this coming from a guy who has told me not to post here in a couple different threads? You seem to lack any confidence in the people working on this games ability to create a winner and SOE ability to back it. FFS we know Smed loves planetside and theyve already said it would be heavily marketed what more are you looking for other than a long list of various changes people have called for in these type of threads?

You seem to place more value on the opinons of random forum posters that base wild speculation regarding PS2 gameplay on previous games they have played that mean nothing when compared to PS2 (and that includes the original planetside) than you do on a dev team that have based and built their careers in the gaming industry and been able to find meaningful employment doing so.

If you think you have such better ideas on how this game sould be made feel free to round up all your fellow forum friends who call for change without benefit of even having had played the game and fund your own mmofps... the right way.

[LONGFELLA KOJ]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

1. Please define how BF3 is any dumber than quake, unreal, CS, TF, etc. CoD gets the 'dumb' label because it generally devolved into campfests.
2. Do you realize how much PS1 stole from Tribes2?
3. PS1s 'core audience' is tiny.
4. PS was a meatgrinder. Forgotten Dagda already?
5. You'll still have travel. They want to get rid of the pointless stuff, like the HART/Sanctuary. Served no purpose other than to make you wait 5-10 minutes to get to a battle once you booted up the game. They could have easily popped you up to a global view and let you select a base to spawn at.

TL;DR: Things were awesome when I was a kid! The stuff the kids like now is bad, and they shouldn't like it!

It's quite humorous that you're a PSU moderator. You seem like you dispise Planetside.

Just a view from outside lookin in bro.

[LONGFELLA KOJ]

If you were to show me a screen shot of any of the last modern FPS that have come out in the last 3 years I couldn't tell you which was which due to the fact they all look like the same dam game. MW,CoD etc.

Except Borderlands.

I say just use the standard answer the people who don't really give a shit use. "Just let them make the game and we'll see what happens". That way if it sucks, you can just do what you always do in 2 months and go buy the next greatest game ever at Gamestop. Oh and don't forget to trade in this one for $5 dollars off!

[roguy]

Originally Posted by WildVS

I agree scale is the potential differentiating factor. You would logically draw the conclusion that higher pop equals larger battles, but they appear to be desiring to break this game down along lengthy fronts to dilute the battles to encourage using the mission system to give CoD/BF guys a more familiar experience. Summarily it lacks innovation.

Have you played Operation Metro or any of the BF3 maps on "Rush"-mode?

Do you even know what you're talking about anymore?

Saying vehicle changes in PS2 were influenced by COD (wich doesn't even HAVE vehicles), then flaming BF3 for it's lack of bottlenecks is just making you look like an idiot at this point.