Should being revived count as a death?

[WolfAlmighty]

Holy crap, Vreki's here!

Personally I don't care one way or the other as I'm not interested in personal statistics, but having a revive negate both a death and a kill makes the most logical sense. All I hope is that the developers don't do anything because of the 'CoD kiddies'. My lord how that ruined the BF franchise.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Deaths shouldn't even be counted.

Tracking deaths as a stat only discourages risk-taking. Take that stat away and people are a lot more willing to go after objectives and do support activities when they aren't "punished" with a death when taking that risk doesn't work out.

I agree.

The reason why reviving works the way it does in BF3 is because of the ticket system. There is no such need in PS2 so I don't see any reason why it wouldn't count, other than it being silly from a logical standpoint; if you got revived you never actually died.
However I still agree with Malorn.

[Gandhi]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

I hate KDR-centric players as much as anyone but I don't think we can just alienate them since we need them to fund the game(seriously, I suspect there won't be a PS3 if KDR players can't be successfully integrated), so we can't just eliminate KDR. But what we can do, is BURY KDR in a sea of other more important stats - capture point hacks, revives, kills you get when you are a MAX and you fall on an enemy infantry from a height(joke, but that would be funny, MAX Stomp we could call it), etc.

I still like the idea of making a points system the primary statistic that's shown on screen, with everything else like K/D available to call up through your character sheet.

Tribes has a similar system. You're still given points for kills, but also for team actions like repairing defenses, defending the flag, capping a flag, returning a flag and so on. They go a step further and tie points into spawning vehicles and using special abilities, maybe in PS2 they could be tied into XP gain. Point is you try to maximize your points with each life, and the best way to do that is to help the team. This way you gently push new players into the teamwork actions while still keeping all the stats that everyone loves.

[Exidius]

Just make it count as a kill and not as a death. Meaning the killer gets +1 for their kill and the revived doesn`t get a death. Because being revived while under fire otherwise ends up being VERY unpopular. People don t want risky (statwise) rivives.

[Vreki]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

I hate KDR-centric players as much as anyone but I don't think we can just alienate them since we need them to fund the game(seriously, I suspect there won't be a PS3 if KDR players can't be successfully integrated), so we can't just eliminate KDR. But what we can do, is BURY KDR in a sea of other more important stats - capture point hacks, revives, kills you get when you are a MAX and you fall on an enemy infantry from a height(joke, but that would be funny, MAX Stomp we could call it), etc.

I know, and PS2 should have plenty of room for all kinds af gamers.
But it always annoys me when we start seing the arguments about why they didnt really die despite the Vanguard trackmarks on their face, while the enemy walking around over there is obviously dead as a doornail.

I also hate when people call a K/D ratio between 0 and 1 for negative, but that seems to be a losing battle.

[Grognard]

Originally Posted by kaffis

Hmm. That depends. What are we counting deaths for?

If we're talking about "should revives count against you when it comes to frequent deaths increasing your respawn timer?" I'd say no, only respawns should count against that metric. Should reviving me negate the enemy who killed me's kill? No, the guy who killed me should still be awarded a kill. Should reviving me leave the death in my K/D ratio? I don't give a shit about KDR. And so on.

This is the correct answer, in my opinion.

We need to precisely define "kill". Before a respawn click, are you wounded to incapacitation, or dead? I googled the definition of revive and got this:

1. Restore to life or consciousness: "both men collapsed, but were revived".
2. Regain life, consciousness, or strength.

It can work both ways by simple definition, so we need context. Therefore, I agree with the contextual approach from Kaffis. I picked yes on the poll, but only to reward the soldier who did their job. Seems to me, there are other "jobs" to reward, specifically, and most importantly, the Medic.

Edit:
Looks like that realistically would leave us with a "K/R" ratio... Kill/Respawn count, Medics effecting the second stat. Although, nothing says they cant do a K/R/R, Kill/Respawn/Revive counter.

[Trignite]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

I hate KDR-centric players as much as anyone but I don't think we can just alienate them since we need them to fund the game(seriously, I suspect there won't be a PS3 if KDR players can't be successfully integrated), so we can't just eliminate KDR. But what we can do, is BURY KDR in a sea of other more important stats - capture point hacks, revives, kills you get when you are a MAX and you fall on an enemy infantry from a height(joke, but that would be funny, MAX Stomp we could call it), etc.

I agree with burying K/D with a bunch of other team based stats, people should focus on those instead. Players who want to just look at k/d can still do that but it should be a small statistic one that isn't in massive bolded numbers taking up half of the profile page. like other games.

Originally Posted by Exidius

Just make it count as a kill and not as a death. Meaning the killer gets +1 for their kill and the revived doesn`t get a death. Because being revived while under fire otherwise ends up being VERY unpopular. People don t want risky (statwise) rivives.

Pretty sure that is what OP is talking about i doubt anyone wants a system that doesn't give a kill to someone just because they got revived.

[Wayside]

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

In Planetside 1, if you died, a death registered on the K/D counter even if you were revived. Some other shooters do not count it as a death if you are revived. What do you think? Should being revived not count as a death?

I am not talking about removing anything from the killers stats or points, just the player who was killed.

Yes.

Reviving a fellow player doesn't change the fact that they got their face blown off. It just provides a method of returning to action that is more convenient for them and their squad than running back from the nearest spawn, or blowing their squad spawn cooldown (which should be significant in my opinion).

1. Dead dude gets a D added to his K/D ratio.
2. Shooter gets credit for the KILL.
3. The medic steps in for the revive.

Step 3 should not go backwards in time and erase all record of the first two steps.

[Synapse]

Ps2 has no killstreak rewards. I dont want people hanging around waiting for medics to boost their K/D

Absolutely yes it must count.

[Eyeklops]

Originally Posted by Wayside

[*]Dead dude gets a D added to his K/D ratio.

Corrected?

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by Synapse

Ps2 has no killstreak rewards. I dont want people hanging around waiting for medics to boost their K/D

Absolutely yes it must count.

Look at it the other way - you're running through heaviest enem fire to rez a dude and tht dude simply respawns because he already got extra D to his score, and he doesn't want to die again. That certain situation results in death of both, because upon arriving medic remains alone.

In PS1 the only real use for an ADV Medic outside teamplay was reviving maxes. That surely isn't a written truth, but generally it IS true.

[maddoggg]

Originally Posted by xnorb

One of the very few things i liked in BF3.

Having a rambo medic reviving you 10 times in a row in front of enemies ... grrrrrrr.

But in BF3 it doesn't matter.
a) The team regains the lost ticket
b) If i don't feel like i don't have to accept the revive

It's sort of a bonus for sticking around with your squad mates.


In the end - it doesn't matter.
I would remove KDR tracking completely anyways.

Completely agree.
If revives improve your K/D that would also draw K/D padders to play together in a squad.
But just like you said,i would prefer K/D to be removed completely.

[Crator]

I don't understand the "I don't want any K/D stats" camp. Who cares? Because someone will try to shove the stats in their face to tell them how better they are then you? If you don't care about that stat then tell them why and then show them the other stats that disprove the crap they are trying to shovel in your face.

[Xyntech]

Since kills don't count towards winning a base capture, getting revived could remove your death, but let the enemy keep their kill. Any abuse of this system could be tracked by the in game exploit software and CSR's.

Also, how many times you have been revived should also be tracked (as I'm sure it will be), so that if you added your number of deaths to your number of revives, you could see what your actual total number of times getting killed was.

Originally Posted by Synapse

Ps2 has no killstreak rewards. I dont want people hanging around waiting for medics to boost their K/D

I'm not in favor of encouraging people to play for K/D ratios, but waiting to get revived by a medic is generally good practice in a lot of situations. I don't care if they are waiting for a revive for the wrong reasons, it's a good thing if they are waiting for a revive.

Obviously if they are waiting for a revive in a situation where it is highly unlikely to happen and it would be better for the team if they just respawned, that would be bad, but no worse than those some K/D idiots camping and trying to play as safe as possible to avoid dying in the first place. At least with the medic thing, they may be more willing to take risks if a medic is around.

[kaffis]

Originally Posted by Grognard

Although, nothing says they cant do a K/R/R, Kill/Respawn/Revive counter.

Nice. That would be a fun counter. So who really plays with teammates who work together?