Orbital Strike: Does it negate good team game play?

[Knightwyvern]

I can't imagine large scale warfare without some kind of artillery option. It's been a key point in warfare for thousands of years; not having it just seems wrong.

Honestly, I'd prefer to have some kind of high skill-cap team based artillery solution in PS2, like field artillery that requires target lazing and is capable of being taken out by a concerted enemy counter attack. However, since we know there won't be such an option at least at launch, I'm ok with OS as long as they are well balanced resource wise and are somewhat difficult to land effectively. Perhaps give them a CoF?

[Furret]

The problem with the current OS is this:
/who cr5 all returns 80+ entries. If everyone uses their OS every three hours, thats one OS ever 4-5 minutes.

1) Reduce the number of players who are allowed to use an OS
2) Make it more difficult to successfully launch one.

1.
-Resource requirement?
-Outfit Leader exp bar?
-Platoon Leader exp bar?
-Cooldown modifications (The OS mothership can only launch an OS once every 30 minutes, and personal strikes take 24 hours on cooldown.)

2. OS's are inaccurate (say anywhere within 100 m of personal target). This accuracy can be increased by beacons laid down by friendly units. These beacons should be relatively difficult to spot normally, but easy to spot if you're looking for them (blinking light in the ground?). While the beacon is active the OS becomes more and more accurate, until 20 seconds, when it is pinpoint. The OS can be fired at any time during the homing process and does not require a beacon to fire. BEACON LAYER GETS FULL EXPERIENCE FOR ALL KILLS GAINED BY OS, while the OS'er does not. This will hopefully discourage OS use on expendable infantry units, and instead on valuable and expensive targets. OS'er also has the option to choose which beacon he/she wants to use if multiple are available.

[p0intman]

The art of a good OS consists of a large population of enemies making themselves available in the open with a lack of cover (dumb idea to begin with, as in, footzerging) and hitting them where it hurts, such as to repel an assault on a base. As seen here, it also consists of teamwork on voice comms with cleaning the rest of them up that dodged it:


Like others have said, quit whining. If you get hit with an OS and cleaned out, it is because of your own failure making it possible.

Every CR5 and CR4 can OS once every THREE HOURS. The ONLY problem is that the original developers had no plan for what to do with it years down the line when everyone has one, and that useless zerglings whine about it without really knowing wtf they're talking about.

Saying it negates hours of organisation is fucking stupid and self reveals you to not know wtf you're talking about.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Crator

Did you ever play PS1 in the later years of the game? While it doesn't give an overall win, it seriously delays the battles. This is not as much of a problem as of late since there's so many people on that can just replace OSed AMSes easily. It was a pretty big time delay issue with battles when there wasn't as many people but the people that did play all had the OS. Seemed to cause a major back-n-forth effect in the battles...

Dont have play Ps1 since 2007

All figth are always all about Back and forth effect !

And ive seen also few orbital strike use in Ps1 after ive quit playing it and its nothing that impressive and Far to be a win button push

Killing even 10 guys is a single strike dont turn the battle ! lol

Also on planetside 2 scale level 10 guys is nothing, if they died they will be back really quicker than what you are use to in planetside 1 !

The usual (( hang out )) of planetside 1 will be gone in Planetside 2 it will be a viseral back and forth figth all the time !

Its a WAR not a pic-nic !

[Kezz]

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

First off, you are taking it too personally. The OS isn't aimed at just you.

Yes, yes it is. I've been OSed for holding up a gate "rush" by a hack team. There weren't any other defenders on the ground in the area, according to my minimap. I've been OSed for being a nuisance with a wall turret.

Secondly if you can't get out of the area in time with a 3 second warning, you suck and are outta luck.

They got me because I was using a turret or an abandoned driverless vehicle and couldn't dismount and get out of the radius in time.

Finally, why should anyone waste 2 OSes on you? A bullet to the head will kill you just as easily. It's not like you are immortal and the only thing that can kill you is a giant freaking laser beam from the sky.

Unless they're infantry and you're in an armoured vehicle and they have no options for attacking you with AV from cover without getting shot to dogmeat.

I feel like I'm getting somewhere when I get GZ OSed (by the other side) for being a pain in the butt.

Sure, using every tool available is good military practice. The problem is when everyone has such a tool and feels they can use it on what ought to be trivial annoyances (I'm completely rubbish, BTW. My lifetime K/D is tending towards infinitessimal).

[MCYRook]

Originally Posted by Stew

Killing even 10 guys is a single strike dont turn the battle ! lol

No, but killing the one courtyard AMS from which they're swarming your base and which you otherwise wouldn't get to does.

Does this really need explaining?

[Crator]

It's Stew! Yes, yes it does need explaining.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by MCYRook

No, but killing the one courtyard AMS from which they're swarming your base and which you otherwise wouldn't get to does.

Does this really need explaining?

Actually poor tactics deserve to be destroys if your team mates are dumb enough to deploy a galaxie or a sunderer directly in the point of view of the enemy So be it you gonna be destroy thats why you have to use your brain while deploying thats sort of thing !

Also the orbital stike will be at 95 % useless for most people !

Not all strike Pay off and those will probably cost a lotsss of ressources so iam not worried at all , only if those are spammable and useable every 2 seconds ill be worried !

Anyway to fix this the orbital strike have to be limited in the empire or in each zone Like in MAG if someones use a strikes their is a contdown timer bar to limited its use in the same team ,sometime it lead to frustration when a idiots call it in the middle of nowhere and you miss your chance to use it well , but its a trade off to not have people spamming those all around the map

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by Tsunami

alright how about $50

lol...

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

From the sounds of it, the VS were freaking retarded for creating such a perfect target to be blown apart.

Look at the situation. It took the VS hours to secure the beach at a battle. It should have taken the masters of water warfare minutes, not hours. They can field a battalion of hover tanks and flank the enemy with ease.

Second, they set themselves up in a fortified position. Sounds like they weren't making any progress at all beyond their little beach head.

You weren't there, so I can't fault you for your assumptions. However, what you're not understanding is,

1. When the entire NC faction is playing Cyssorside, it's pretty hard to take Leza.

2. Many of us at the Leza battle just got back from taking Igaluk back from the TR on Ceryshen, hence the long bridge/tower battle at Leza.

3. We had to split our population between Cyssorside and the TR meatginder happening on Searhus or face losing both maps.

4. The orbital strikes that took out our two beach locations (that were spread out by about 500m) happened at the same time and only after we had pushed back the NC armor into Leza and we were primed to finish off their BFRs and take the tower outside of Leza. One more round of repairs and we would have had that tower surrounded. However, without repairs and with a flail blasting away at our vehicle spawn at Tore, by the time we could get back to Leza, the NC had their defensive perimeter back up around the tower and bridge, putting the fight back at square 1. And that's when a lot of VS logged out. Personally, I sat half asleep in a turret at Tore for another 45 minutes until I got 91 assists. Was hoping for an even 100, but sleep was needed!

5. A lot of us were on the ground repairing vehicles manually as well to get them back out faster. I imagine that's what the Lode pilots were doing which prevented them from taking off in the 3 second warning.

Anyhow, it was not as cut and dry as you'd imagine. We had people in all vehicle types and support roles trying to crack that nut and we did, briefly. If the repair depot had been taken out by Libs and Reavers, (or even a flail) that would have been cool, because it would have been a team effort, but that's not how it went down.

Originally Posted by Kezz

OSes are a problem when they're:
a) too easy to use
and/or
b) so common that you're prepared to use them on trivial annoyances.

Either would be unfortunate. The situation in PS1, where both apply, is kinda ridiculous.

This is true.

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

I think orbital strikes should require that you SET THEM UP. For anyone who's played C&C renegade, you know what I mean - someone goes in, plants a beacon of some sort, defends said beacon, and goes down with the ship, or something like that.

That's a much more reasonable game play mechanic for a game like Planetside 2, than PS1's design. If OS will be in PS2, this is what I am hoping it will be like. However, I'd prefer straight up artillery pieces, simply because they can be countered through team game play.

There's been some great discussion in this thread. Thanks for keeping it civil and constructive!

[Raka Maru]

Won't OS's be used only by the commander class in PS2? That will radically reduce the spamming by any grunt wanting to activate one.

When I got back in PS1 for the free time, I got killed twice in an hour. Both by OS. I don't see commanders using OS's haphazardly when they cost resources.

There is no fair way to limit them by empire timer. Some jerk can just release one right when it becomes available. I think giving it to the commander, with timer and resource cost, it should be balanced in PS2.

[p0intman]

Originally Posted by Tatwi

lol...



You weren't there, so I can't fault you for your assumptions. However, what you're not understanding is,

1. When the entire NC faction is playing Cyssorside, it's pretty hard to take Leza.

2. Many of us at the Leza battle just got back from taking Igaluk back from the TR on Ceryshen, hence the long bridge/tower battle at Leza.

3. We had to split our population between Cyssorside and the TR meatginder happening on Searhus or face losing both maps.

4. The orbital strikes that took out our two beach locations (that were spread out by about 500m) happened at the same time and only after we had pushed back the NC armor into Leza and we were primed to finish off their BFRs and take the tower outside of Leza. One more round of repairs and we would have had that tower surrounded. However, without repairs and with a flail blasting away at our vehicle spawn at Tore, by the time we could get back to Leza, the NC had their defensive perimeter back up around the tower and bridge, putting the fight back at square 1. And that's when a lot of VS logged out. Personally, I sat half asleep in a turret at Tore for another 45 minutes until I got 91 assists. Was hoping for an even 100, but sleep was needed!

5. A lot of us were on the ground repairing vehicles manually as well to get them back out faster. I imagine that's what the Lode pilots were doing which prevented them from taking off in the 3 second warning.

Anyhow, it was not as cut and dry as you'd imagine. We had people in all vehicle types and support roles trying to crack that nut and we did, briefly. If the repair depot had been taken out by Libs and Reavers, (or even a flail) that would have been cool, because it would have been a team effort, but that's not how it went down.




This is true.



That's a much more reasonable game play mechanic for a game like Planetside 2, than PS1's design. If OS will be in PS2, this is what I am hoping it will be like. However, I'd prefer straight up artillery pieces, simply because they can be countered through team game play.

There's been some great discussion in this thread. Thanks for keeping it civil and constructive!

you provided a target that was causing problems for the NC, someone spotted it and took them out - plain and simple. Don't tell me that the VS wouldn't do similar. You would. It doesn't negate gameplay, it prolongs it.

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by p0intman

you provided a target that was causing problems for the NC, someone spotted it and took them out - plain and simple. Don't tell me that the VS wouldn't do similar. You would. It doesn't negate gameplay, it prolongs it.

That's 100% not the point.

The point is that the game play mechanic of Planetside's Orbital Strike can, in an instant, negate hours of team play, without any threat to the side using the OS or any team play involved with using the OS. Also, there isn't any team game play involved in countering the PS1 OS game play mechanic (moving out of the way is not what I would consider compelling team game play).

So the TL;DR version of "the point" is: The game play mechanic of Planetside's Orbital Strike seems contrary to the "strategic teamwork" spirit of Planetside 2.

[Nasher]

They should leave orbital strikes out of PS2 TBH. It was a broken mechanic in the first game. Or at least give it a 1 hour+ cooldown, which is faction wide for that continent.

It was basically an I-win button in PS1. Especially when it killed people/vehicles behind cover and there was no counter to it.

[Crator]

This is fairly old info but it's still in the PS2 Info Thread. So guess it still applies:

• How will the Command System function? Commanding is not based on command rank like in Planetside. Rather commanding is based upon a cert tree within all of the other certifications. In order to be a deeply specialized commander you need to give up some other perks. Also, squad leaders and commanders will be able to create “missions (think quests from an RPG) that average players can follow in order to receive bonus experience. The orbital strike is making a return.

[Gonefshn]

OS was fun and helps break stalemates of footzerg.

The game needs it just for the sake of epic boom and dakka.