New NC SMG, AF-4 Cyclone, is perfect for LAs and infiltrators.

[coconut]

Originally Posted by psijaka

As someone who has played infil quite a lot in PS2 I would agree with this.

Hacking is occasionally a powerful tool; being able to sneak in, hack a terminal and pull a sunderer at the right time can be a base winner. But this is very situational indeed; usually I'm only making a nuisance of myself by hacking a turret or whatever.

Not to contradict you, but I thought I would report on a situation where we were 2 VS manning 2 of the guns at the eastern entrance of Tawrich Techplant, facing a tank column and quite a few reavers and NC libs.
I was manning the AA, the other guy was switching between AA and AV turrets, I think. We were doing a good job of keeping the NC force away.

That is, until a single infiltrator came and hacked our turrets. The bastard didn't even kill us. Just came, hacked the manned turrets last and ran away. This must have been a coordinated attack, because the NC main force got rolling immediately and completely crushed all two of us (and the late comers who don't realize that these two eastern towers are worth manning almost all the time).

A decisive move by a single infiltrator that decided the fate of the tech plant.

[coconut]

Originally Posted by Nur

To me SMG seems too strong atm.

I hope they will be nerfed soon as they did for the vulcan turret on prowlers (that WAS OP and now is just normal)

If they nerf the SMG a bit, it's fine.

Now I feel them quite too strong. If as an HA I start thinking to remove my T7 chain gun or my heavy weapon for a SMG there is something that is missing....

Otherwise soon you will see all people with SMG in close quarters

Do you agree?

P.s. I play on CERES, Terran faction

I was afraid HA + SMGs would be too strong too, but on the other hand, maybe there are not.
With the SMG I tend to reload after each kill, meaning I do about one kill per mag, or 5 kills before I need to get back to an engineer. I could get a few more, but I would have to risk headshots.
With the SVA-88 I can kill almost as many enemies with a single mag, and I keep the ability to use the high volume of fire for suppression and pre-firing.

I think maybe they should make an infiltrator-specific SMG that's a bit worse than the current ones, but leave the current one untouched. It's a lot of fun to use the current SMGs as a flanking LA, but if you nerf them the carbines are better.

Considering that SOE already tried shotguns + INF and decided against it, and SOE also did not want to let infiltrators use carbines, I think there is a need for something slightly worse than a carbine but still better than pistols for CQC.
What about a short-TTK, high-recoil, short-range with large ammo reserves? Slightly worse than a carbine, small mag, but with lots of ammo.

[Neutral Calypso]

I would tend to agree with everyone who surmised that the SMG is an excellent weapon for hacker infiltrators.

For those who think it is good as an LA or an HA... dream on.

My MSW-R still kicks more ass than the SMG ever could and my LA can deal damage at longer range with a Jaguar using fewer rounds per kill.

[ShadetheDruid]

Originally Posted by Neutral Calypso

For those who think it is good as an LA or an HA... dream on.

My MSW-R still kicks more ass than the SMG ever could and my LA can deal damage at longer range with a Jaguar using fewer rounds per kill.

Well if you're someone who specialised their gear for CQC, then I can see how an SMG might not be useful to you. But for those of us who specialised our gear for mid range, SMGs could be useful as a secondary loadout to switch to when we need/want a bit more CQC power.

Me? I went with the Solstice SF for mid range (plus underbarrel for demolitions). Sure, I could get the VX6-7, but i'd rather have something a little different than another carbine.

[lizardjoel]

for all of you people worried about "invisible men with cqc weapons" http://i47.tinypic.com/2w722pc.png OH CRAP SO STEALTHY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=26xfBWBsmR8 I definitely couldn't see that!

I mean really, every time a non LA class gets something kinda good for it you people come out of the shadows and attack it until it gets nerfed, if youre consistently getting snuck up on by THAT than Light Assaults should be destroying you in fights!

[Figment]

Smokeshot, that is not how they render on high end rigs.

And you seem to misunderstand: I would be sneaking up, I know what I can do with it. A lot more even than a super fast rof sniperrifle shotgun or actual shotgun.

But hey, let us all pretend we are crap players and balance on that, instead of being concerned with becoming overpowered for all the wrong reasons with a weapon that yet again doesn't promote stealth gameplay for infiltrators.



For the record, I play a lot of LA because it is better at sneaking sabotage than the infiltrator right now, that is my concern; mobility, stealth and appropriate objective placement. Firepower be damned.

[ShadetheDruid]

Originally Posted by Figment

..with a weapon that yet again doesn't promote stealth gameplay for infiltrators.

Yes it does. Just because it's not your kind of stealth gameplay, doesn't mean that it's not (bearing in mind I do support the need for a stalker cloak and more things for those types of infils to do).

[Figment]

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

Yes it does. Just because it's not your kind of stealth gameplay, doesn't mean that it's not (bearing in mind I do support the need for a stalker cloak and more things for those types of infils to do).

I see where you're coming from as ambush is greatly enhanced with a stealth element, but I make very clear distinctions between the two. :/ To me, it doesn't promote stealth gameplay (constantly trying to stay hidden to reach objectives), it promotes ambush killwhoring(constantly losing your veil on purpose to get a kill).

To me the difference is which element amplifies and stimulates what type of player interaction and behaviour in the world. In the first case, the weapons are weak enough to stimulate using stealth to remain hidden and discourage fighting. The weapons are the extra.

While when you look at the SMG, you'll notice it by itself is combat oriented due to its combat strength. The stealth element is the extra that stimulates actively seeking out combat because it allows for better combat/ambush positioning.


Stealth gameplay however, is to me defined as remaining undetected and only engaging your carefully selected target of choice. It's about precision strikes, pre-planning and careful movement considerations.

[Kerrec]

Sounds like a playstyle preference to me.

If you want to be sneaky and stay sneaky, that's your personal choice.

If someone else wants to use cloak to get in killing range of the weapon, that's their personal choice.

I really don't agree with one type of player forcing their playstyle on others.

P.S. The cloak is not THAT good. It's loud, it's easy enough to see in the ranges that the SMG's are to be used in. Usually seeing someone cloaked gives me the advantage, because they have to uncloak to start shooting.

The rest of the time, if they sneak up on me, I'd be dead even if they didn't bother to cloak. So I don't really think it's grossly overpowered. Now that the novelty has worn off, I'm seeing less and less SMG infiltrators and I'm seeing the SMG on other classes. But my K/D is still about the same game session to game session, so the introduction of the SMG's hasn't had any impact on my survivability.

This whole thread is just premature over-reaction, IMO.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Neutral Calypso

I would tend to agree with everyone who surmised that the SMG is an excellent weapon for hacker infiltrators.

For those who think it is good as an LA or an HA... dream on.

My MSW-R still kicks more ass than the SMG ever could and my LA can deal damage at longer range with a Jaguar using fewer rounds per kill.

I thought this topic was about the AF-4 Cyclone...

Of course a TR isn't going to be impressed with an SMG with the weapons they have.

[TGxCraig]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

I thought this topic was about the AF-4 Cyclone...

Of course a TR isn't going to be impressed with an SMG with the weapons they have.

I was about to say that exact same thing to him. The TR already have fantastic weapons that are crazy accurate and great at all ranges while having low recoil and mag sizes over 30. For the NC, we only have the AF-4 for that. Closest thing after that is the GD-7F, but it is still limited to 30 rounds.

Also, it was fun playing with you Baneblade yesterday. You're a beast with those tanks vs air. Defending that base on Esamir when we were surrounded on all sides was an epic battle of a few fighting many and succeeding.

[Baneblade]

Thanks, I'm just sorry I had to get off so quick. Ya'll run a good squad. We should work together some time.

[TGxCraig]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

Thanks, I'm just sorry I had to get off so quick. Ya'll run a good squad. We should work together some time.

Sounds good to me. Add me in game, TGxCraig1287.

[TheSaltySeagull]

I cant speak for the NC SMG but the TR and VS versions are only really good for infiltrator(which I personally am glad they have a decent close range weapon now and dont find it OP by any means given how limited cloaking is in both duration and quality). As others have said shotguns and carbines will often give you better performance in close/medium range than a SMG. Tho I will say the SMG is still a viable option if you elect to go that route, just not as good as a shotgun or carb tho.

But like I said I have not used the NC one so I do not know how well it stacks up against their shotguns or carbs so it might be the better choice for them. But I will say I have not had any issues going up against NC armed with the SMG with my barrage shotgun tho.

[TGxCraig]

Originally Posted by TheSaltySeagull

I cant speak for the NC SMG but the TR and VS versions are only really good for infiltrator(which I personally am glad they have a decent close range weapon now and dont find it OP by any means given how limited cloaking is in both duration and quality). As others have said shotguns and carbines will often give you better performance in close/medium range than a SMG. Tho I will say the SMG is still a viable option if you elect to go that route, just not as good as a shotgun or carb tho.

But like I said I have not used the NC one so I do not know how well it stacks up against their shotguns or carbs so it might be the better choice for them. But I will say I have not had any issues going up against NC armed with the SMG with my barrage shotgun tho.

Yea, I need to give shotguns a try, but I can't use slug rounds in a trial. If they ever do another 3x SC event, then I'll buy some shotguns.