Tank rear armour versus Pods

[PredatorFour]

I play on a busy server, Miller. It ain't hard to fly into a enemy zone with combined arms and stay alive. Keep low as always, gank the tank from behind which is near instant and get the hell out and repair. Most of the time i get hit is where i'm stupid enough to keep coming back to the same spot and then get ganked by a heavies rocket. It is really easy like Varsam said to kill tanks in an ESF.

Giving more protection to a tanks rear from air is going to help... a little. It's not like some revolutionary game changing effect as they will still die, but maybe live for 7 seconds longer.

[Gimpylung]

I find it amusing that the flyers continue to talk about combined arms.

I don't see too many of you flying in formation working together.

My point is that lolpodders can gank EVEN IF I'm in cover and not exposed. The attack is too fast, I cannot respond to it. Can we quit talking about this 1v1 rubbish.

Tanks should have a weakspot at the rear, its far far far far too weak.

I will reiterate and clarify for the umpteenth time.

Modify tank top armour so that those that choose to use it can survive 1 rear attack from lolpods.

Let me pop that into Google Translate and select Flyboyish

NERF NERF NERF LOLPODS, BUFF AA, STAHP DEM HAVING FUN, RUIN THE GAME FOR DEM

Oh dear, I see whats happening

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by Gimpylung

I find it amusing that the flyers continue to talk about combined arms.

I don't see too many of you flying in formation working together.

My point is that lolpodders can gank EVEN IF I'm in cover and not exposed. The attack is too fast, I cannot respond to it. Can we quit talking about this 1v1 rubbish.

Tanks should have a weakspot at the rear, its far far far far too weak.

I will reiterate and clarify for the umpteenth time.

Modify tank top armour so that those that choose to use it can survive 1 rear attack from lolpods.

Let me pop that into Google Translate and select Flyboyish



Oh dear, I see whats happening

1. I will stop bringing up 1v1 when you stop calling anyone with an opposing opinion a flyer.

2. I don't see many MBTs fully crewed. It's usually 1 person and they normally have a AP secondary because they double as AI as well as doing damage to armor.

3. you can 1 shot ESFs with the primary weapon. You can have a 2nd gunner for dedicated AA.

4. As someone that plays with tanks as much as air vehicles. I disagree. The weakspot is fine due to how well MBTs can deal with enemies other than tanks.

5. No one will use top armor because everyone is scared of mines anyway. Just like no one uses IR smoke even though lock-on rockets are pretty scary. Especially aimed at the MBTs rear.

I'll add to this. You don't mention liberators at all even though they can do the same thing from a further distance and does anyone know if the bug to fire 4 missiless at the same time still exists? Because that could lead to these surprise buttsex reports you are complaining about. That is a separate issue entirely. For those that didn't know about it.. you used to be able to switch from you primary gun on ESF while holding the fire button down and when it switched to rocketpods you would get a double fire of rockets. Meaning 4 rockets fired at the same time.

I haven't used that in awhile to know if it still works that way.

[Lafen]

Tons of undead AA MAX's with Engineer and Medic support but there is still a chance to kill a tank ?

Love it.

[Gimpylung]

1. Fair enuf, scouts honour.

2. Mine is fully crewed unless its 3am then it might not be due to pops.

3. Irelevent, I'm talking about ganking, I'm dead before these tactics are relevent.

4. I disagree, think thats why we having this debate.

5. So you are objecting to what so precisely, the choice?

You move on to broader issues beyond the scope of my issue personally.

You are right it is circular, this thread, but hell, its passing the time

[Dragonskin]

I don't think the option is warranted and I don't think enough people would use it to justify the man hours to create the option.

Your top armor issue aside. I am more interested now to see if the bug still exists for firing missiles. Because if that bug is still around then fixing that 1 thing could get you valued reaction time making your change unnecessary because your whole reason for the change is based on TTK being too high on rocketpods hitting your butt.

[snafus]

Originally Posted by Assist

I was never an ESF pilot, and never bought rocket pods until two weeks ago because I always found them cheap. I bought them because I was tired of getting killed by ESF's in one pass, so I figured I may as well join the crowd and become a lame-ass like the rest of the rocketpod scrubs.

Having them now, seeing how difficult it is to use them and shoot a tank in the ass, I have to say that they're even easier than I ever imagined.

I seriously hope they nerf rocketpods into the ground even more. I can make a pass at full speed and take out a tank, with 0 chance of being destroyed as long as my flares are up. In most cases two bursters wouldn't even have a chance to kill me, unless it was my 3rd/4th/5th pass in a row. But as it is right now, the rocketpods to a tank are the equivilent of a shotgun to the face. No warning, ridiculous reward, and 0 threat unless you overstay your welcome.

Takes 44 rounds of burster fire to kill a fully certed comp armor ESF. Those bursters that were shooting at you failed indeed. Or simply weren't pulling security as they should have been.

[maradine]

Agreed. When bursters are properly target calling, we usually get the kill before the ESF volley is complete. They certainly don't get out for a second pass. But then, we take flak a little more seiously than most.

I'd imagine the local equation is very different from server to server.

[snafus]

Originally Posted by maradine

Agreed. When bursters are properly target calling, we usually get the kill before the ESF volley is complete. They certainly don't get out for a second pass. But then, we take flak a little more seiously than most.

I'd imagine the local equation is very different from server to server.

Yes I do imagine that it can vary upon outfit and overall community. There are plenty of people on Connery that will allow you to farm them with air and do nothing but fire back with small arms fire. I have seen some of those same individuals makes post on how air is OP.

[Kirotan]

Ok, so question time:

Tank drivers:

1. How many times per day do you get surprise rocket podded and lose your tank to it?

2. When you get surprise rocket podded, how often does this happen while you are in a group with air cover/AA presence?

3. What % of your tank deaths come from being rocket podded?


Pilots:

1. What % of your MBT kills come from picking off tanks in smaller battles or on the perimeter of larger ones?

2. Which of these statements do you more strongly agree with? A) Most of my MBT kills occur because the tank driver made an error in judgment or B) Most of my MBT kills occur because the tank driver is just unlucky.

I feel like neither side understands the other. "You don't know what it's like to be rocket podded in the rear of your tank and die almost instantly!" and "You don't know what it's like to fly within 500m of a base and suddenly have everyone shooting at you!"

Infantry: "Hey! Both of you have no idea what it's like to die instantly to nearly everything that shoots at you within 500m!"

Pilots and Tankers, together: "SHUTUP, INFANTRY!"

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by Kirotan

Ok, so question time:

Tank drivers:

1. How many times per day do you get surprise rocket podded and lose your tank to it?

2. When you get surprise rocket podded, how often does this happen while you are in a group with air cover/AA presence?

3. What % of your tank deaths come from being rocket podded?


Pilots:

1. What % of your MBT kills come from picking off tanks in smaller battles or on the perimeter of larger ones?

2. Which of these statements do you more strongly agree with? A) Most of my MBT kills occur because the tank driver made an error in judgment or B) Most of my MBT kills occur because the tank driver is just unlucky.

I feel like neither side understands the other. "You don't know what it's like to be rocket podded in the rear of your tank and die almost instantly!" and "You don't know what it's like to fly within 500m of a base and suddenly have everyone shooting at you!"

Infantry: "Hey! Both of you have no idea what it's like to die instantly to nearly everything that shoots at you within 500m!"

Pilots and Tankers, together: "SHUTUP, INFANTRY!"

Tankers
1. 0-1, I usually die to lock-on rockets or mines

2. The only times I have been surprised buttsexed by a ESF pilot are when there aren't many allies around or if there is a noticeable lack of ally AA around. Usually if I do get surprised buttsexed.. then people will start pulling AA to deal with the ESF.

3. 2% or less. It's a rare.

Pilots:
1. 50-60% of my tank kills are solo tanks usually on the outskirts of a larger battle.

2. This is a loaded question. I would go with a little of A and B. The tank driver is partially unlucky because he may have been trying to get to the large battle or he made a error by sticking to the outskirts trying to pick off infantry or sunderers on the outskirts of battles.

For the last 3 weeks I have been mostly a ground pounder.. so yea.. every vehicle that looks at me is potential death.

[Kirotan]

If you have a suggestion for replacing the loaded question on the pilot side I would gladly take it. Not that I expect this survey to gain traction, nor do I wish it to completely derail the discussion.

I guess I have 2 main points:

1. The tank questions are asked to make tank operators stop and think, "Do I really get rocketpodded that much?" I think that it happens more rarely than most think. Unlike other deaths, however, it is more memorable because the manner in which your tank dies leaves it as a more memorable event in your mind. Think about it; unlike other ways you can die in a tank (vs. other tanks, c4, mines, AV, can all be reduced and mitigated by smart tank play), dying to a strafing run to the rear armor is a sudden process that leaves a tanker in a situation where he has little to no control over his fate. I honestly believe that most tankers rarely die to rocket podding; it is the rage that rocket podding causes that makes it insufferable to many, even if it only happens once a day.

2. The best way to prevent your tank from being rocket podded is by having friendly air cover and/or AA. Sad I know that you will have to depend on others, but that's the way the current Air/AA game is setup. Air will go where there is the least amount of AA to stop them.

edit: deleted stuff not really relevant to the conversation. something about flying or whatnot.

[KUKUGUY]

I think rocket pods kills a tank too fast
I don't even have time to activate my vanguard shield

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

Sure, please everyone take this advice. Go find footage of people farming 50-100 people in ESFs in the current game. I want to see videos of this with in the last update that came out with the ESAVs. I would be interested to see if anyone can find some amazing footage post AA updates across the board which includes the new Striker.

This guy is one of the better flyers out there on Miller and even he thinks A2G is out of balance:


The ESLR update didn't do much for G2A because of the time it tales to lock/fly to target. Decent pilots just won't give you that time.

[Varsam]

Originally Posted by Thunderhawk

You obviously don't play on a server that is full of people that know how to incorporate AA into their Squad and platoon makeups....

I'm sorry, but the AA state of the game renders all these arguments pointless.

"I'm sorry", but making sweeping dismissals and then lamely pointing to "the AA state of the game" without any other validification isn't exactly convincing.

Originally Posted by Thunderhawk

We're not (or at least I'm not) trying to use AA as an excuse per se. I am trying to say that Planetside 2 is - last I checked - a combined arms game, and you cannot put an ESF in a vacuum with a MBT then start wanting things nerfed.

Sure, if we were on the field with ESF vs MBT and nothing else around, then yes the lolpods are stupid when it comes to TTK on MBTs, I am first one to agree that it is the case, but in game, whilst playing it, an ESF cannot decimate an entire Tank column, an ESF cannot go around killing all MBTs without fearing for being locked / flacked / shot at with small arms fire (trust me it hurts).....

All you have to do is turn, strafe, move BACKWARDS, move Forwards, anything.....

And... if you are in your tank and get instagibbed by an ESF, it had to have been able to land an entire volley for it to "blow up"....meaning nothing was locking, shooting, flacking, looking at it funny for it to do so.

Rough idea of numbers, out of 10 (different) ESF vs MBT encounters:-

3 MBTs will be instagibbed
5 MBTs will be severely damaged, but repairable, whilst the ESF flees (being shot at)
2 MBTs would have shot down the ESF if they had AA guns on them, AND A 2nd GUNNER (something you guys fail to mention is that having AI main gun and AV secondary gun means you made a decision to be vulnerable to air.

------------------

Now if they decide to NERF the Lolpods so it takes 2 Volleys to kill a Tank in the rear, then I would not be upset by that either, players would adapt, game styles will change, but I am just tried of the constant ESF debate that constantly ensues whenever someone doesn't like dying in a game where you are meant to kill and be killed.

The ESF is the single most powerful tool in the game, because it enables a single player to effectively combat ANY other threat in the game. It is an undeniably powerful vehicle, so of course it needs constant tweaking to balance its relationship to other factors in this game. And where did you get those numbers? They're completely arbitrary.