TTK: Like it faster, or Slower?

[Espion]

Originally Posted by DayOne

What's so great about being able to put in soo much time into a game that you are only good because you've trained yourself to being incredibly accurate.

Because not only are you forced to think before and after the fight, which is the argument you're trying to make, but you're forced to think during the fight as well. The longer a fight takes the more environment factors that come into play. Suddenly you have to be aware of your movement, the movement of others around you, locations of cover, how exposed you are to vehicles fire, are you backing into a corner where you'll be vulnerable to nades, how much ammo do you have left, what tools do you have that could help you, the list goes on...

The planning/thinking you do before and after fights helps lower the potential TTK, while the thinking you do during the fight is equivalent to putting your plan in action and seeing it through.


Not to mention it seems like you're arguing that practice/training should not be required to be good...? Serious? Yes if I'm a new player I want to be on par with veteran players from a gameplay standpoint, but I'd never expect to be on par with them skillwise unless I work towards it...

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by TekDragon

And I seriously doubt all the "But dying in .5 seconds is REALISTIC!" are actually going to ever be infantry.

I'd put money that these are air-whore and tank-whore players that plan on sitting in their armor and air (with massive TTK on them, ironically enough) and hoping they can laugh their asses to the XP bank getting 1-shot kills everywhere from long range.

Hey, I'm a grunt to the bone!

I only play BF3 on hardcore and I think I can count the times I've entered a vehicle other than the jeep with one hand finger in some 70h.

[sylphaen]

Considering we mainly saw action from the LIGHT armor class, and assuming HEAVY assault would have greater life expectancy in a HEAVY firefight, I'd guess the TTK looks ok as it is.

I do like the fast movement and fast action from the LIGHT class.

It will be interesting how higher armor & firepower/slower movement will balance out in beta.

EDIT: just to make sure people read this write. TTK >> NOT ANY FASTER than what we saw. Slower is fine, IMO

[Coreldan]

Actually the movement from Higlos perspective seemed very slow, even when sprinting. However when he was watching others run around, they looked very fast.

It was weird. I was actually sort of feeling uncomfortable watching the guy move relatively slowly looking. But I guess that was just me

[XPquant]

I love how you guys argue that being slower is more skill oriented. All your whining for is time, time to shoot, time to hide, time to aim time to run. If you were better you wouldn't need that time.

[Espion]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

It's like I would say about a high TTK game that it's just no skill arcade where you can run in the open all you want with no risk as long as you can keep the crosshair on the enemy or something along that lines.

Not quite sure where you're coming from here since arcade style games are generally considered to have the highest skill requirements among FPS's. Also... PS was an arcade style game :/

[Ragotag]

Originally Posted by ThGlump

Slower ttk promote cooperation better. Supporting fire, flanking, retreating. No point with any of that when you kill somebody before they can even react.

This I do not agree with; I think the opposite is true. If you can soak up tons of damage, you don't need as much cooperation and tactics. IMO, it would also render medics/engineers somewhat pointless. Don't get me wrong, too fast a TTK can be so unforgiving that cooperation and tactics become a near impossibility. I would prefer something right in the middle.

[fod]

As an aussie I'm hoping that the TTK will lower or I'm not gonna have a chance because of 400 ping (I get 400 ping on PS1 currently from aus)
people will be able to kill me before it even registers them on my pc

[Figment]

Originally Posted by DayOne

@Figment, you can't go to either extreme. Both are bad, it's getting the right balance that will make this game good.

That's the thing though, when we ask for slightly slower TTK, we're not asking for a full minute. :/

I don't quite get where that hyperbole sentiment is coming from.

If BF is what, 0.4 seconds, this is what, 0.6 and planetside is 1.0-1.9 (in some cases an engagement can take much longer because of that), I would opt for somewhere around 0.9-1.5 seconds.

Response time of adults is slightly slower than that of children. Do you want to remove adults from the game because they're too slow to respond or their eye-sight or hand coordination is a bit worse and they can't aim as fast?


Or, in the words of Battlefield Heroes:

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by Espion

Not quite sure where you're coming from here since arcade style games are generally considered to have the highest skill requirements among FPS's. Also... PS was an arcade style game :/

And I dont disagree, it was just an example of biased, bad, uneducated and stereotyping argument, similar to what you made about low TTK games Planetside wasnt overly arcade cos it had no arcadey fast movement. Time to kill/gunplay wise it was. However PS was a game like no other, which is why I play it. I would never play a "run of the mill" shooter with high TTK though. Now seriously, off to sleep lol, bai

[EVILPIG]

Originally Posted by XPquant

I love how you guys argue that being slower is more skill oriented. All your whining for is time, time to shoot, time to hide, time to aim time to run. If you were better you wouldn't need that time.

And what they don't realize is that slower TTK, actually favors the more skilled (whether "skill" be twitch or tactics). If a "noob" gets the drop on a "vet" and the vet is dead before they can react, great. Even with TTK's as slow as PS1, a noob could get the drop on a vet and the vet could jump, move, spin etc. and then own the noob.

If you're better, whatever "better" is, you're still better. You could look at air combat as an example (since TTK is slower than infantry). Noob comes up behind said vet and begins to fire on them destroying 25% of their armor, vet manuevers and turns the tables and kills noob. If noob had a weapon that would have destroyed the vet's aircraft faster, noob probably would have owned the vet. Shame on the vet for letting a noob get the drop on them. Good job noob.

And again, you watched a video. You have no idea what the game feels like. Play Beta first.

[Malorn]

It seemed a bit on the 'too fast' side to me.

[Checowsky]

So you have more open maps and lower TTK times and also jumpjets and no longer do you have just straight corridors with 3 entrances to the inside of a base, I imagine as we didn't see one.

Enjoy trying to rap your head around who shot you this time as you fall to floor dead yet again. This is an MMO shooter and the point is fun, you could die in PS in 0.3 seconds very easily, don't single out one on one fights and assume everything is jelly. PS was a corridor shooter most of the time where numbers meant little and you could easily coax people into fighting, this is a lot more open. That means theres a lot more angles to be shot from. Its like an MA fight in PS except those had huge ranges about them as trees were large and spread out, not as close knit as that outpost base was in the GDC vid.

Longer TTK times would just work out more fun for more people imo.

Also Pig, the vet shouldn't get getting dropped on that easy if he is a 'vet'. Your example also makes no sense due to the fact that vet or not most people will die a lot all the dam time from angles they didn't think of. Slower TTKs give everyone a chance, vets will own but hey, they should.

[Espion]

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

If a "noob" gets the drop on a "vet" and the vet is dead before they can react, great. Even with TTK's as slow as PS1, a noob could get the drop on a vet and the vet could jump, move, spin etc. and then own the noob.

Rewarding the time and effort someone puts into a hobby? That sounds terrible!

[Figment]

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

And what they don't realize is that slower TTK, actually favors the more skilled (whether "skill" be twitch or tactics). If a "noob" gets the drop on a "vet" and the vet is dead before they can react, great. Even with TTK's as slow as PS1, a noob could get the drop on a vet and the vet could jump, move, spin etc. and then own the noob.

If you're better, whatever "better" is, you're still better. You could look at air combat as an example (since TTK is slower than infantry). Noob comes up behind said vet and begins to fire on them destroying 25% of their armor, vet manuevers and turns the tables and kills noob. If noob had a weapon that would have destroyed the vet's aircraft faster, noob probably would have owned the vet. Shame on the vet for letting a noob get the drop on them. Good job noob.

And again, you watched a video. You have no idea what the game feels like. Play Beta first.

So dogfights should not occur. Fights should not occur.

Only executions?


How is that fun again?