Should camo be obtainable without money?

[Wahooo]

Originally Posted by meiam

It's a good point, but:

In LoL you can only buy skin or champion (correct me if I'm wrong) but in PS2 you can buy actual upgrade (side grade if you prefer). Now skin offer no advantage since you're name is always very visible (which is not the case of PS2). And champion are on free rotation, so eventually you'll be able to use them for free. For LoL to be more like PS2 it would need to sell the rune with real money. I would also argue that LoL make more money from people buying boost and champion than skin, if you have any proof that can counter this, by all mean enlighten me.

So seeing someone with a skin can only tell you that this person is ready to use money to buy champion. But seeing someone with a camo in PS2 tell you that he's ready to buy upgrade for his gun, which could be the reason why you lost. Which could be something people would rather avoid (I'm not saying 100% of the the PS2 population, I'm saying a number large enough that it's worth thinking about), so say because camo are obtainable with exp, you have let say 10 000 person who don't buy camo which would have otherwise brought them (instead they decide to grind for it, possibly playing more, making the server livelier), but in exchange 50 000 person decide to buy camo because now they can avoid broadcasting to other player that they payed.

If these are the problems you foresee with the current cash shop model... um... giving free camo is not a solution.

[Kashis]

Originally Posted by The Degenatron

Whether you acknowledge it or not, selling a part of the game that makes you even a little harder to see, it tantamount to selling power.

And what you are doing is actively advocating that SOE push people into making that purchase. Something the director of SOE has stated emphaticly he does not want SOE doing.

Understand this: I'm already budgeted. I'm paying for everything I can get my greedy hands on. Free or not won't matter to me personally. The one thing I can't buy: People to shoot at. You may think it's a given, but I don't. I won't take that for granted.

I think that what I am advocating is a reasonable compromise. It's equal footing for free players - I've got no problem with that. Do you?

Yes, I have a problem with what you are advocating. League of Legends has a character named Teemo.. He has a camo skin which "allows him to blend in" and gives him a cute army hat!

You can only get it by paying real cash. No one has cried foul. Why, you might ask? Because everyone in that core of players has gotten used to buying skins and no one cares.

[Kashis]

[QUOTE=ZeroArmada;743812]Why are you even replying if you have nothing to say? :|

Because I can, Planetside Universe gives me the freedom to do so.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by meiam

It's a good point, but:

In LoL you can only buy skin or champion (correct me if I'm wrong) but in PS2 you can buy actual upgrade (side grade if you prefer). Now skin offer no advantage since you're name is always very visible (which is not the case of PS2). And champion are on free rotation, so eventually you'll be able to use them for free. For LoL to be more like PS2 it would need to sell the rune with real money. I would also argue that LoL make more money from people buying boost and champion than skin, if you have any proof that can counter this, by all mean enlighten me.

So seeing someone with a skin can only tell you that this person is ready to use money to buy champion. But seeing someone with a camo in PS2 tell you that he's ready to buy upgrade for his gun, which could be the reason why you lost. Which could be something people would rather avoid (I'm not saying 100% of the the PS2 population, I'm saying a number large enough that it's worth thinking about), so say because camo are obtainable with exp, you have let say 10 000 person who don't buy camo which would have otherwise brought them (instead they decide to grind for it, possibly playing more, making the server livelier), but in exchange 50 000 person decide to buy camo because now they can avoid broadcasting to other player that they payed.

Free rotation doesn't really enter into it. In both games, you can get game changing items through the cash shop or by earning them for free.

If you see someone with a custom skin in LoL, and they are using a character that is not in the current free character rotation, you may have the same assumption; that they may have paid for that character with real money and not gotten it through grinding.

But people don't care about this in LoL. It's a non issue. You are arguing over an issue that you made up, where a real life example proves it's not a real problem.

Hell, there are actual P2W games where people bitch about the overpowered items, yet those people bitching still play. So I highly doubt it's going to be a noteworthy problem in a game like PS2 which is not P2W.

[meiam]

Originally Posted by Kashis

Yes, I have a problem with what you are advocating. League of Legends has a character named Teemo.. He has a camo skin which "allows him to blend in" and gives him a cute army hat!

You can only get it by paying real cash. No one has cried foul. Why, you might ask? Because everyone in that core of players has gotten used to buying skins and no one cares.

But what if that camo also reduce the size of the health box above his head to 10% it's original size. Or make it that you could only see him if one of you're ally was closer to him that he would need to be without that special camo? Wouldn't some people start thinking "oh he only beat me cause he had that special camo" wether true or not it's irrelevant, it existing could lead to some people not buying the camo even if they want it purely because they like how it look.

Also never advocated giving camo for free or having all camo available with exp.

[Whiteknight]

Originally Posted by Kashis

Yes, I have a problem with what you are advocating. League of Legends has a character named Teemo.. He has a camo skin which "allows him to blend in" and gives him a cute army hat!

You can only get it by paying real cash. No one has cried foul. Why, you might ask? Because everyone in that core of players has gotten used to buying skins and no one cares.

I think that's because everyone either loves Teemo, or loathes his very existence and actively hunts anyone who play him.....

But, we're going on a tangent here-- back on topic.

You want to look special in your nifty non-issue uniform? Pay up. Plain and simple. I agree with the idea that all cosmetic changes should be from cash only, because the Dev's need to eat too. Buy a skin, feed a Dev.

[aceshigh]

Originally Posted by meiam

But what if that camo also reduce the size of the health box above his head to 10% it's original size. Or make it that you could only see him if one of you're ally was closer to him that he would need to be without that special camo? Wouldn't some people start thinking "oh he only beat me cause he had that special camo" wether true or not it's irrelevant, it existing could lead to some people not buying the camo even if they want it purely because they like how it look.

Also never advocated giving camo for free or having all camo available with exp.

What if they sold an "I win button"?

[Jinxsey]

"Buy a skin, feed a Dev."

That is going on a t-shirt right there. Higby and Co. made a great game, I will be showing my support by throwing money at them. I am pleased that I will be rewarded for doing so by being given some camo options, I will probably be wearing the money obnoxious one I can find.

Originally Posted by aceshigh

What if they sold an "I win button"?

"If".

[The Degenatron]

Originally Posted by aceshigh

What if that desert variant you suggested blends just a little better than the standard desert camo? Should it then be free too?

Perception is reality. The advantage between Bright Yellow & Blue vs a desert camo pattern is obvious. The advantage between two different desert camo patterns that use the exact same color pallet (natural vs digital camo, for example) is next to impossible to decern. "Why would someone buy it, then?" you might ask. Perhaps it looks like the camo they actually wore in the service. I can see that being a powerful motivator for someone to purchase a particular camo pattern.

Originally Posted by aceshigh

I do agree that it is buying an advantage, I stated it in a few posts above your own. Even if it doesn't blend that much, it still may be enough to make you hesitate and lose the jump. But if they just limited that to the camos, I would be ok with it. What are we talking, $3-$5?

Keep in mind that ANY money may be too much money for some - I'm talking about the 12-18 age range here. While us adults may cringle at the idea of children on the vox, the reality of monotizing a f2p game is that the free playing children of today are the paying adults of tomorrow - if they stay that long. They have to love the game, and one real fast way to kill that love is to make it feel like they are being punished for not having a credit card. And no one, I mean NO ONE, has a more sensitive perception of injustice than adolecents. Don't ask me why, it's something to do with neurological development.

The object, the overriding goal for SOE, should always be to avoid any wiff of impropriety. Even the slightest perception of p2w will kill this game in a heart beat.

[meiam]

Originally Posted by Whiteknight

I think that's because everyone either loves Teemo, or loathes his very existence and actively hunts anyone who play him.....

But, we're going on a tangent here-- back on topic.

You want to look special in your nifty non-issue uniform? Pay up. Plain and simple. I agree with the idea that all cosmetic changes should be from cash only, because the Dev's need to eat too. Buy a skin, feed a Dev.

This is actually a tangent. What I'm saying is:

Someone want to look nifty in non-issue uniform, BUT don't want to tell other he's ready to use money? He doesn't pay up. Don't buy skin, dev starve.

[Wahooo]

[QUOTE=meiam;743828some people start thinking "oh he only beat me cause he had that special camo" wether true or not it's irrelevant,[/QUOTE]

???

Whether it is true or not is 100% relevant!!!!!
If it is true, they have a legitimate gripe and the system needs to be looked at.
If it is not true then those people are typical internet children and can be ignored.

Your whole argument has been to cater to a group that really should be ignored.

[Kashis]

Originally Posted by meiam

But what if that camo also reduce the size of the health box above his head to 10% it's original size. Or make it that you could only see him if one of you're ally was closer to him that he would need to be without that special camo? Wouldn't some people start thinking "oh he only beat me cause he had that special camo" wether true or not it's irrelevant, it existing could lead to some people not buying the camo even if they want it purely because they like how it look.

Also never advocated giving camo for free or having all camo available with exp.

PlanetSide 2 sells skins that will make your health bar 10% smaller? I didn't realize they even showed the health bar...

[Gogita]

I did not read the replies of this topic, but I've got one thing to say:

The game is freaking completely free! You will be able to even download it for free! Don't be such a cheapskate!

[Haro]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AWMBeLrZoyw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's been, what, a few weeks since this video was posted (again and again and again?)

Plenty of free to play games offer ways to earn most of their items and cosmetics in game for free. However, often the systems are set up so that cosmetic items are often worth only a few dollars on the market but could take dozens of hours to farm or craft. Someone mentioned TF2 before, perfect example. A single hat can go for anywhere from .99 cents to a couple of dollars (though I did once get a $100 dollar hat, but that's a whole different story. Don't judge.) And yet, every had has a tremendous cost in resources: you need to smelt dozens of weapons in order to get the chance to make a hat, and even then, it's pretty RNG. But other items are far more reasonable to require, if it's all a little random. Tiering the system and making rewards difficult to obtain through normal means but easy to get via the store creates even more incentive for purchasing. If a player has progressed a long way and has all the weapons he needs, he can save up his points for expensive cosmetics rather than being forced to buy them or use his points for other things that he doesn't want as much.

Also, everyone saying their going to do *this* or *that* to people who don't pay at all need to grow up. Seriously.

[Xyntech]

Originally Posted by Gogita

I did not read the replies of this topic, but I've got one thing to say:

The game is freaking completely free! You will be able to even download it for free! Don't be such a cheapskate!

Aye. The number if people who won't play because they mistakenly think it's P2W will not be as large as the number of people who wouldn't play because it had a box price or, worse, a monthly subscription.

SOE's current plan pays for the game, and keeps populations high. Right now, since we can all get in the door for free, I'm more interested in them figuring out more ways to help the game generate even more money than I am worried about boosting populations. Populations aren't going to be a problem, at least not until the "wow" factor wears off.

Keeping players past the first 6 months to a year after launch and paying for the servers and new content is important. Keeping a few pissants happy who will probably think the game is P2W even if they can earn camo for free is not important.

Edit: Pissants referring to players who don't pay a cent and bitch about not being handed everything for free, not players who play for free and appreciate the amazing game they get to play without spending any money at all.