Does the Prowler really need a nerf?

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by Figment

What's wrong here is that players grow accustomed to exploiting bad design and think that adapting to it by ignoring the design flaws and avoiding intended gameplay, removes any grounds for complaints.

This is a big part of the argument on what an exploit is in gaming. We all should know of strafe jumping and how that "skill" alone made some games into what they are now. When in truth that "skill" was a rather big exploit that the players took advantage of in times before patches could fix such things. Why do you guys think strafe jumping was removed and/or not seen in near ANYTHING made today? It became and still is THE thing that matters the most within competitive gaming of games like Quake. If you don't use strafe jumping then you will fail no matter how good you are. Why do we not see things like that anymore? Because they are exploits and Devs can fix the damned things, maybe even before damage can be done.

It's gotten to the point where people look for exploits without thinking about it and call them skills just because it's in the game. Well I have something to tell about that. We are all human and humans are a bunch of idiots, developers included. Some things are missed and some are not, live with the fixes to their works and find the next thing to abuse so it can be see and fixed.

I hear that using a pistol in a tanks rear left tire can disable it, maybe some of you should go and try it.

[Satanam]

Originally Posted by Xaine

The Prowler can one shot infantry, with both of the shots it fires - in the time a Magrider can fire one.

This means that the Prowler has 100% more potential to kill infantry.

Not sure how you can dispute it.

But don't let the facts stop yah!

It'll be 2 shots needed to kill infantry with 100% HP and shield on GU04.

[Xaine]

Originally Posted by Satanam

It'll be 2 shots needed to kill infantry with 100% HP and shield on GU04.

Indeed it will, that sounds more balanced. Don't you think?

Your TR chum seems to disagree.

[Satanam]

Originally Posted by Xaine

Indeed it will, that sounds more balanced. Don't you think?

Your TR chum seems to disagree.

Yeah, it'll be balanced and I also already stated that I liked it even I'm a TR. I don't like overpowered neither underpowered things for any side. That said, yeah I believe it'll make all MBTs balanced by now. I just hope people don't keep saying "it's still OP" like when they nerfed ESFs and people still thought it was OP.
There's also some guys talking about it on this thread, lol. It's useful if you know how to use it, but not OP. You can kill it easily, and you can hit it even if you're using a carbine. I'd say this game is close to be balanced now (with GU04), and probably it'll be. I'm just thinking about how it'll be when they release new stuff (weapons, vehicles, maps, etc). Then, it'll start again and there we go with so many nerf threads.

[ringring]

Originally Posted by Xaine

Indeed it will, that sounds more balanced. Don't you think?

Your TR chum seems to disagree.

Possibly.

I wonder whether 2 shots will be possible, the reason being is that the first shot kicks the barrel off centre so that the second shot hits elsewhere, so maybe we'll have to aim-shoot-hit(assuming a good shot) - re-aim and so on.

Of course it will be easier when your target is say infront of a rock that allows splash damage to play a part so that it's near miss #1 added to near miss #2 = kill.

Q. Can a magrider or vanny (with good aim and a smidgeon of luck) one-shot say an infantry-man on a direct hit?

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by ringring

Q. Can a magrider or vanny (with good aim and a smidgeon of luck) one-shot say an infantry-man on a direct hit?

Of course, since they'e always dealt more damage on a direct hit than the Prowler.
Not that the Prowler can't one-shot infantry with a direct hit, a direct HE round shouldn't be able to AFAIK.

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by Xaine

Indeed it will, that sounds more balanced. Don't you think?

Your TR chum seems to disagree.

Correcting your discrepancy is not disagreeing with an up coming change.

[Tenhi]

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

Of course, since they'e always dealt more damage on a direct hit than the Prowler.
Not that the Prowler can't one-shot infantry with a direct hit, a direct HE round shouldn't be able to AFAIK.

I allways thought that direct hits deal directdmg+splahdmg? If that is still true every tank shell one-shots infantry if you directly hit it.

About the Prowler HE nerf... I guess everyone saw that one comming. Is it justified? Well... Prowler HE deals 2*1000 Splash with a 4.175sec cycle (3.175 reload +0.5 refire delay + 0.5 refire delay) without Anchor Mode, Vanguard HE has a 5sec reload time and only 1*1000 Splash, Magrider has 4.75sec reload with 1*1000 Splash.

[Whiteagle]

Originally Posted by Assist

Do you think the Magrider needed a nerf?

Uh... yeah, considering you had a tank that could sidestep incoming rockets and shells....

...And you barely even got tickled by the Nerf bat, they changed your secondary main cannon and fixed what was apparently broken movement mechanics not working as intended...

Originally Posted by Assist

I also disagree that the Prowler doesn't need nerfed. If they thought the Magrider needed to be nerfed I don't see how anyone can say that Prowler doesn't need nerfed. Whatever cannon the HEAT is, that's what the problem is. They basically get a VS VPC/PC all in one since they get double shots. If they want to leave the Prowler as it is than give us back our Magrider and make the Vanguard into what it is supposed to be, a beast of a tank. It's what they should of done in the first place, but everyone screamed nerf and I think finally people are realizing it wasn't the right move to balancing MBT's. Make each one unique so that they're all interesting rather than making them all mundane.

...Wait, what?!?!

Assist, how bad of a tanker ARE you?
An HE nerf I can understand, but how is our default Tank Turrent overpowered?

Originally Posted by moosepoop

i maxed out my anchor mode and its normal for me to kill 4-8 infantry in seconds.

many times i have single handedly changed the tide of battle.

so yes, i think the prowler nerf against infantry is needed. we can still kick magrider ass, and thats good enough.

i think the first shot should take away 90% of hp. if it only takes 50% hp, then its not a good idea.

Eh, I'd drop it to 75%, but honestly the Prowler is a clusterfrack...

I mean, it had one of the worst turret designs for anti-tank combat with a double side-by-side barrel shotgun mounted on one side, with the basic explanations that it's "LOLZ, Starcraft Siege Tank!"
Problem is, this isn't a Single Player RTS, and even if it was active area denial by bombardment weaponry would only be useful against SOFT targets.
Enemy armor requires precision, which really isn't the TR's strong suit anyways.
Thus we Terrain players have a tank designed to lob a bunch of shells down range, and when we run out of zerglings caught out in the open we turn our guns towards suppressing hardened fortifications.

...Of course this games development team started off thinking that "hardened fortification" is just a wall or a shack in the middle of nowhere, which really isn't helpful when you have dozens of explosives being thrown at you.

Like Figment has been saying for most of this thread, bases need overhauls to design, otherwise they're just going to be reefs to fish all those zergling fish out of.

Originally Posted by Xaine

All the boo hoo about the Magrider, while the Prowler can kill one infantry with each of its rounds.

The TR bias has continued from PS1 I see.

Knew I rolled the wrong faction.

Hey buddy, next time you take a tank shell to the face let me know how it works out?

Our turret is NOT designed with Accuracy in mind, it's a double side-by-side barreled shotgun mounted on the FAR left.
If you knew anything about side-by-side barreled shotguns, you'd know that you have to adjust your aim for each barrel.
So while we do have two shots per reload, realise that a Prowler has to point his rectal at one infantryman, then eyeball his second shot a little to the right of the next.

Originally Posted by Tenhi

I allways thought that direct hits deal directdmg+splahdmg? If that is still true every tank shell one-shots infantry if you directly hit it.

About the Prowler HE nerf... I guess everyone saw that one comming. Is it justified? Well... Prowler HE deals 2*1000 Splash with a 4.175sec cycle (3.175 reload +0.5 refire delay + 0.5 refire delay) without Anchor Mode, Vanguard HE has a 5sec reload time and only 1*1000 Splash, Magrider has 4.75sec reload with 1*1000 Splash.

Yeah, this is why a Nerf to the Prowlers HE is no skin of my nose; as long as it's still doing 750 Splash it's still going to out DPS the other two.
Yeah, the Splash won't be an instant kill shot like the other two, but we'll still be able to spread more anti-infantry damage around a wider area.

[Tenhi]

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Yeah, this is why a Nerf to the Prowlers HE is no skin of my nose; as long as it's still doing 750 Splash it's still going to out DPS the other two.

Yeah, the Splash won't be an instant kill shot like the other two, but we'll still be able to spread more anti-infantry damage around a wider area.

That is if it does 750 Splashdamage. My guess is that they will go lower. If they were to balance it after DPS it would drop under 500... then again Vanguard and Magrider arent balanced like that either. My guess would be something like 600-650dmg.

You will still out-dps the VS/NC and you can still splash a larger area.

What I fear way more is the nerf to all the explosion radii for vehicle weapons <_<. If they really nerf ALL vehicle weapons that will include HE, HEAT, AP (lol), AI secondaries, Dalton, Zepher, Bulldogs, Furies etc etc.

Depending on how hard they nerf it... the Prowler HE wont be a problem anyways xD.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by Tenhi

I allways thought that direct hits deal directdmg+splahdmg? If that is still true every tank shell one-shots infantry if you directly hit it.

Good question, I don't know. I guess it would make sense if that was so.

"Prowler HEAT / HE rounds have had their damage reduced to no longer 1-shot kill infantry, killing a full health infantry will require both Prowler rounds to be fired. This does not affect vs. vehicle damage."

That part makes me think that the two are seperate.

[psijaka]

◦Explosive radius from ALL vehicle based damage sources have been reduced, this does not affect vehicle vs vehicle direct hit damage, only splash damage vs infantry.
◦Prowler HEAT / HE rounds have had their damage reduced to no longer 1-shot kill infantry, killing a full health infantry will require both Prowler rounds to be fired. This does not affect vs. vehicle damage.

Just thought that I would repeat the relevant part of Higby's GU4 post.

As an infantry player I think that this is long overdue, and that it will hopefully apply to rocket pods as well as ground based vehicles. Excessive splash area of effect is a pretty low skill way of killing someone; only encourages farming.

I was defending TI on Ceres last night; we suffered intense bombardment for what must have been an hour at least, first from TR, and then from VS, who eventually pushed us out. It is possible to survive the AoE spam by using the back entrance and staying inside and camping the control point, but it does get tiresome after a while.

I'm really hoping that the splash AoE and Prowler Heat/HE direct hit nerf will reduce the incentive to farm spawns. There is nothing more guaranteed to put a newcomer off the game than being repeatedly spawn killed in this way.

[MrBloodworth]

Move the spawns to an underground series of rooms then, put the SCU down there too. Would create more Inf only areas, remove the spawns from the barrage, and promote defense. May even help with rendering populations as it could be occluded.

Putting spawns on the perimeter of bases is the problem.

[ringring]

Originally Posted by Tenhi

I allways thought that direct hits deal directdmg+splahdmg? If that is still true every tank shell one-shots infantry if you directly hit it.

About the Prowler HE nerf... I guess everyone saw that one comming. Is it justified? Well... Prowler HE deals 2*1000 Splash with a 4.175sec cycle (3.175 reload +0.5 refire delay + 0.5 refire delay) without Anchor Mode, Vanguard HE has a 5sec reload time and only 1*1000 Splash, Magrider has 4.75sec reload with 1*1000 Splash.

Where do you get your data from.

I doesn't make any sense that prowler has twice the firepower simply because it has twice the guns. Normal guns don't work that way.

Also, a couple of months ago Higby actually said that all tanks havee identical dps.

[MrBloodworth]

The two barrels is the mechanism used to create the empire defining feature. IE: Re-fire rate. It is not one gun, its a higher re-fire rate.

They do not strafe or always have the strongest armor facing forward, they do not punch with high damage or have a shield.