Now that OSOK are confirmed, Should Sniper Work/Sacrifice for it?

[Lonehunter]

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

So really they wouldn't be op

Only allowing snipers the OSOK after much training would create an unfair scenario. Two snipers, one playing for a year the other a day. The guy playing for a day has NO CHANCE of killing the other guy if no one has any errors. The vet is going to kill him with one shot every time.

One of the main points of PS1 and they've said they want in PS2 is new players being equal to vet players. Yes vet players will get more variety, more option, but not capable of doing something as powerful as a OSOK so often. Things with cooldowns like OSs are a different story.

[Graywolves]

Originally Posted by Lonehunter187

Only allowing snipers the OSOK after much training would create an unfair scenario. Two snipers, one playing for a year the other a day. The guy playing for a day has NO CHANCE of killing the other guy if no one has any errors. The vet is going to kill him with one shot every time.

One of the main points of PS1 and they've said they want in PS2 is new players being equal to vet players. Yes vet players will get more variety, more option, but not capable of doing something as powerful as a OSOK so often. Things with cooldowns like OSs are a different story.

They's only talking about the sniper rifle

[FIREk]

Originally Posted by Lonehunter187

Only allowing snipers the OSOK after much training would create an unfair scenario. Two snipers, one playing for a year the other a day. The guy playing for a day has NO CHANCE of killing the other guy if no one has any errors. The vet is going to kill him with one shot every time.

This.

Powerful headshots are a core mechanic. It's like only allowing full-auto fire in an MCG after months of training certs - otherwise you need to click really fast and maintain accuracy while doing so. Makes no sense and is unfair as hell.

Regardless of viewpoints, this will never be the case for a painfully simple reason. Allowing OSOK sniper rifles through skill training is WAY BIGGER than a 20% power difference. Not to mention the 20% is supposed to factor in tons of other advantages, meaning that weapon buffs will be 5-10% out of that 20%.

[Lonehunter]

Originally Posted by Graywolves

They's only talking about the sniper rifle

Yup, I only mentioned OS's as a preemptive argument against "but OS's are one shot one kill"

[Night]

I think OSOK HS would be great. But, they should:

Remove the crosshair and reduce the accuracy a lot when non scoped so an actual hit then would be pure luck.

Make sure a sniper needs long range not to get killed by MA or HA. He must be very far away so the shot will be difficult.

The sniper will sacrifice armour and cant wear Rexo.

He will die from one headstabb with a knife if the stabber are speced for it. Cloakers can now counter snipers.

[Raka Maru]

Originally Posted by Traak

No, I'm not joking. OSK only working sniper-to-sniper means we can go about running and gunning, instead of having a game where 80 percent of the people are cowering behind cover while the god-like snipers are swaggering around dominating the battlefield.

Everyone should learn about cover.

Since when is it NOT the case that the most dangerous opponent to a sniper is another sniper?

There are games that cater to snipers. Planetside is not supposed to be one of them. The focus is on teamwork, maneuver, and face-to-face, vehicle-to-vehicle combat. It isn't on making it so the snipers are like real-world army SpecOps snipers with Barretts, and the rest of us are the unsuspecting Taliban, unable to effectively shoot back.

Maximizing the role of snipers ruins the game for the other 80 percent of the people. Or 95 percent.

Sniping is never face to face or veh to veh, it is lonely, patient, and precise. It is a play style just like your play style. Just as valid as the MCG totters.

So, I reaffirm that having snipers only able to OSK other snipers is great. You will find out how much you enjoy sniping when you are evenly matched against others who are also sniping, instead of being able to dominate the battlespace because the vast majority of people don't want the game to be Sniperside.

The game isn't balanced when you have one class of people being able to pick off others with impunity with little concern for retaliation.

Snipers get hunted once the sniper warning is sent out. Especially if there is a zergfest.

If you like sniping so much, that it is important to you that you can do one shot kills, then play games, such as modded Unreal Tournament games with nothing but snipers on the map. Or do snipers only enjoy sniping when they are relatively invincible, but when they are in danger of being counter-sniped, suddenly it's no fun?

Once again, play style. Why send them to another game to play?

If you are a sniper, then you are the only person who can be one-shot-killed by a sniper. Additionally, due to your lack of helmet, so you can properly use your scope, you can be one-stab-to-the-head executed by anyone, and one-shot killed by a pistol at close range. That is what I advocate.

I do disagree with this however. You are saying that snipers should only stick with and shoot their own class effectively. Where is the balance in that?

Most people lobby for what they want. Or against what they don't want, that is understandable. But for the good of the game as a whole, OSK snipers aren't good for the gameplay. And if we wanted excruciatingly realistic combat, we'd just join the real armed forces of our real countries.

Missing a headshot still means you can run and get healed. Just don't stand there and give me the chance to shoot you in the head. Snipers add a level of realism that is good. Otherwise it would just be face to face and vehicles like you said. Knowing it is dangerous out there keeps you on your toes.

I'm an AMS driver. What I want to see with our spawn points, assuming AMSes even exist, is that they are truly invisible, to everyone, at all times, under all circumstances, without the "here I am" flash that happens when they enter your field of vision from afar. Unlike the idea of OSK snipers, my idea doesn't imbalance the game in favor of AMS drivers.

I like AMS's and am sad they are gone. I agree with you here.

However, were I the more "lobby for what I want at the expense of everybody else" type, I would be saying that we need AMSes to be indestructible, with an energy shield that no enemy can see, penetrate, or even shoot into, and not show up on radar.

But I don't, because my ides of "balance" aren't "I get what I want and everyone else suffers." I actually appreciate snipers. To give them the god-like power to instantly kill everybody else on the battlefield from long distances with no warning isn't "balance."

What I'm trying to tell you here, is that snipers can fit in the balance of this game. You just have to realize you will have to play differently (perhaps more realistically) when snipers have OSOK abilities.

I like playing my Max, Stealther, Engie, Support, Tanks.... Oh and my Sniper! I don't cower when an enemy sniper is near, I go find him or duck and grab my own bolt driver.

I change play styles when I feel like it. They are all valid to me.

[FIREk]

Originally Posted by Raka Maru

Snipers get hunted once the sniper warning is sent out. Especially if there is a zergfest.

If a sniper is in a regular spot, he will quickly get suppressed, then killed by a cloaker, or a vehicle.

If a sniper is on a great spot, like on a high hill, he will be hard to kill by a ground unit, but, having no support of his own, he will be easy pickings for aircraft.

There are so many downsides to being a sniper, how can you deny someone powerful, very skill-heavy headshots.

Originally Posted by Raka Maru

I do disagree with this however. You are saying that snipers should only stick with and shoot their own class effectively. Where is the balance in that?

While they shouldn't only attack snipers, it's very important for balance that they focus on that.
In Battlefield, if side A has got a sniper or two, and side B has none, side B quickly becomes plagued by side A's snipers. Therefore a sniper's main job is to make it as difficult as possible for enemy snipers to harass his buddies. After he's sure snipers won't be a problem for a while, he can move on to suppress and decapitate enemy infantry in general.

Originally Posted by Raka Maru

Missing a headshot still means you can run and get healed. Just don't stand there and give me the chance to shoot you in the head.

As long as a body shot doesn't do much damage past disabling shields, that's fine. Now that I can't heal myself when playing non-Medic, I shouldn't have to look for one every time I'm grazed by a poor sniper shot.
Nor should I expend my limited supply of medkits after a sniper botched the shot. :P

Originally Posted by Raka Maru

I like AMS's and am sad they are gone. I agree with you here.

Here's hoping for being able to land a Galaxy and cloak it, or for Sunderers being able to deploy as an AMS equivalent...

[Wahooo]

Yeah, a sniper has so many things to worry about already, and this game is supposed to have more realistic ballistics so it isn't going to be like COD style quick scoping shooting through 2+ people. If you get headshot you deserved it. You were standing still, not aware of your surroundings or just unlucky once. If you get farmed by a sniper more than once it is all on you. If you get farmed by a sniper who has been in the kill spam a bunch in the last 30 seconds it is still all on you.

I am generally against headshots in games. I have always felt it rewards spray and pray. It gives everyone a "punchers chance". Most all arguments for them don't sit well with me anyway. But it sounds like this game has them undercontrol, as has been said if you get headshot standing around, your fault, if you get headshot running around randomly and being aware good sniper earned it.

The harder sniping is the less likely you will see a "sniper battlefield". I"m hoping for very difficult sniping mechanics, i'm also looking forward to sniping a lot.

[Fuel Truck]

I can't wait to OSK you guys with my sniper rifle

[Dreamcast]

Originally Posted by Lonehunter187

Only allowing snipers the OSOK after much training would create an unfair scenario. Two snipers, one playing for a year the other a day. The guy playing for a day has NO CHANCE of killing the other guy if no one has any errors. The vet is going to kill him with one shot every time.

One of the main points of PS1 and they've said they want in PS2 is new players being equal to vet players. Yes vet players will get more variety, more option, but not capable of doing something as powerful as a OSOK so often. Things with cooldowns like OSs are a different story.

First of all, a person playing for a year will destroy a guy playing for a day...Thats the way it is in any game!

2nd of all Their will never be a situation of 1 n00b vs 1 veteran only....This is an MMO with a huge battlefield so that situation is not gonna happen...Their is always gonna be veterans and n00bs on boths sides.

Having said all of this havn't u even read what I wrote?

Once the person does unlock Headshots, he should sacrifice......Accuracy(sway when scoping),Recoil,bullets per clip(2-3),reload time,Armor(Makes yourself weak to headshots, meaning any sniper can kill you and of course weaker to any kind of bullets).

As you can see a sniper who picked to OSOK infantry...Will be vulnerable to OSOK by ANY SNIPER, Meaning any n00b to veteran sniper without OSOK could do it to those snipers who picked to OSOK because of weaker armor.

Also I include even more sacrifices....All this will make it tough to master.

Regular Snipers will be the best snipers for most since they do high damage and have way better accuracy.




Now I know the concern now is "WELL SOMEBODYZ IZ GONNA MAZTER IT AND BE OP, NOT FAIR".....Their is always somebody who masters something and is very good at it, that is borderline unfair to most players...sorry thats the way it is...but my solution, makes it hard for most to OSOK....which will make the battlefield require more skill.

[FIREk]

Why should a sniper have to spend a considerable amount of time unlocking basic gameplay mechanics such as bonus headshot damage?
Why should that sniper be expected to sacrifice anything other than versatility and durability (by having only basic armor), let alone being all but powerless at anything closer than medium-long range?

Just t clarify, do you want all snipers to have swaying sights, or only after they unlock being able to do bonus headshot damage?

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

First of all, a person playing for a year will destroy a guy playing for a day...Thats the way it is in any game!

This is an FPS, it's not WoW when a fresh character with 80 hit points can't compete with a geared-up Lv85 with 250k hit points...
In FPS games skill is the most important factor, especially since a top-level char is supposed to have a maximum statistical advantage of 20%, over a fresh character.
I've raped veterans early in many a game, right after I got the hang of the game, usually within a day or two.
Just how the opposite is "the way it is in any game" is beyond me.

Originally Posted by Dreamcast

2nd of all Their will never be a situation of 1 n00b vs 1 veteran only....This is an MMO with a huge battlefield so that situation is not gonna happen...Their is always gonna be veterans and n00bs on boths sides.

And how is that relevant to anything? How is that relevant to gimping a new character, only to gimp that character further only to allow him to do what he is supposed to do - terrorize and kill stuff as efficiently as possible?

[EmperorNortonII]

I know everyone else is talking about PS compared to console FPses for the reres who play consoles, but maybe we should take a second to look at snipers in WW2 Online.

In WW2 Online, battles generally start with armored vehicles and vehicle-transported infantry seizing forward bases. This is all long-range vehicle combat and short-range infantry, if any, past the requisite sapper to blow the FB.

Then, you start to circle the town with armor, so you can keep enemy vehicles from getting to good defensive positions. Infantry go from point to point, capturing infantry spawns in hope of locking the enemy down to their vehicle spawn.

Not quite how base capture works in PS1, but rather close. TTK is fairly long until the middle of a heated fight in a town, and still often involves a minute or three of walking towards your target. However, unlike PS, where OSOK is largely relegated to vehicles, every weapon in WW2 Online kills on a headshot... and while the ballistics in WW2 Online are hardcore, if you're good with the standard infantry rifle, you can kill people out at 4-5 hundred yards. LMGs can do similar things at 2-3 hundred, and don't have the iron-sight limitations of the infantry rifles. Sniper rifles are for finding a good spot behind enemy lines, and aren't of much use in the meat of infantry fighting. Sappers are the first thing to be bled dry in a division. LMG and SMG follow sooner. Then sniper. Then mortar, grenadier, ATR, and then rifleman, of which there are more available than all of the rest of the classes combined... and all infantry combat is dodging from cover to cover, but that's because of vehicle machine guns, not snipers.

Vehicles trump infantry, except where ATRs can hide and pop vehicles from a low angle in the side/rear (you have to hit the crewmen inside of a vehicle to kill them, no vehicle HP). Aircraft trump most vehicles, and they are 1) Very hard to fly 2) Involve a large time to target and 3) Run out of fuel

Of course, aircraft have a very hard time spotting infantry, and really can't do much about infantry seizing an objective.

[Dreamcast]

Why should a sniper have to spend a considerable amount of time unlocking basic gameplay mechanics such as bonus headshot damage?
Why should that sniper be expected to sacrifice anything other than versatility and durability (by having only basic armor), let alone being all but powerless at anything closer than medium-long range?

Just t clarify, do you want all snipers to have swaying sights, or only after they unlock being able to do bonus headshot damage?

Again their's a difference between bonus headshot damage and OSOK......Im saying you should unlock OSOK.

The reason Im saying you should sacrifice these aspects is to make it harder to be a OSOK sniper, since so many people playing planetside dont like OSOK.

and all snipers should have swaying sights, but OSOK snipers should have even more sway.

This is an FPS, it's not WoW when a fresh character with 80 hit points can't compete with a geared-up Lv85 with 250k hit points...
In FPS games skill is the most important factor, especially since a top-level char is supposed to have a maximum statistical advantage of 20%, over a fresh character.
I've raped veterans early in many a game, right after I got the hang of the game, usually within a day or two.
Just how the opposite is "the way it is in any game" is beyond me.

In most cases a person who has been playing a game for a while will rape, a person who hasn't on the first day like you said in your original example....Any FPS game is like this. Their are exceptions but thats how it usually is since it takes time familiarize with the game and that 20% difference is a big difference when facing a n00b who never played.

and for the sniper scenerio I give you....If you were good enough, you should destroy a OSOK sniper on the game.....their was no imbalance what so ever.

And how is that relevant to anything? How is that relevant to gimping a new character, only to gimp that character further only to allow him to do what he is supposed to do - terrorize and kill stuff as efficiently as possible?

Is relevant if you read the guy I responded to wrote.

Do what is the characters suppose to?...You mean OSOK?......Planetside 1 Snipers never did that.

Like I said a regular sniper will still have extra damage with headshots, he will still be a force to any infantry...he will still take away 65 of your health or whatever like the first planetside, so I don't see whats so gimp about them....

In fact the regular snipers will be way better to fight against moving targets since they are much easier guns to use than OSOK snipers.


Also regular snipers>OSOK sniper head to head since regular snipers have better accuracy,reload time,etc.....and OSOK snipers die in one shot.


Only the best should be allowed to OSOK, it should be a skill that takes time master IMO.

[Traak]

No OSK's, period.

UNLESS, you allow me to work, sweat, and strive to have OSK's for my Vanu AAmax. And OSK's for my TR Burster.

Making someone jump through hoops for something that is OP doesn't make it any less OP. Take the OS, for example. It was a novelty when it was begun. It was odiously common and OP by the time we were flooded with CR5's. Making OSK's available will lead to them being overabundant.

If not even a triple-shot from a jackhammer was a one-click kill, unless you were a cloaker, being able to do it from 900m isn't going to augment the game.

I would hate the game to turn into "Long distance snipefest with everyone else unable to run over ten feet of open ground without dying." No thanks.

Want that? Go "cert" Unreal Tournament, and instagib to your hear'ts content.

Oh, that's right, OSK's are only OMGKewlllzzzz when YOU have them and almost nobody ELSE does.

Which is the definition of OP.

OSK=fail.

[SuperMorto]

You should add the explanation of what the OSOK acronym is before posting? I just don't know