IMO KillCam killing the Game

[Graywolves]

How I feel about killcams.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Graywolves

How I feel about killcams.

You want to rub your breasts on them?

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

Kill cams could help in the exposure of hackers though and they will exist.

That's why I linked the thread about replays before. All of the hacker-catching benefits without any of the catches of killcams.

[Metalsheep]

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

The only way killcams help with anti hacking is if you get their point of view.. and then it's still guess work. If they were 'looking' at you through the wall, how do you know you were't up on radar or not. If there is locational damage and they waxed your head a good three times, how do you know if this is skill or auto aim.

In Planetside 1 the Killspam was a pretty good indicator of a hacker. When 10-20 people start dieing at once to the same guy/MAX unit. Thats a good sign.

You dont need killcams to spot hackers, you just need GMs and Detection software. I don't know if this is true or not, but i heard that GMs in Planetside could look through the view of other players if they wanted to, so they would do this to reported/suspected hackers to determine if they were hacking or not.

[Hamma]

I don't like the idea of killcams but I will wait to see what it plays like.

It would be cool if you could disable killcams of yourself in the options.. course then everyone would have that toggled off.

[WaryWizard]

How does a kill cam help people learn? Seriously. I cannot fathom a SINGLE instance in which it helps. Someone please tell me how a kill cam is useful in ANY game type other than a 15 min 16vs16 match. I'll try and think of some right now

I am walking down a hallway. There is a door that leads to a somewhat open alleyway. I have a choice of going left or right. I look both ways, and it all seems clear. I decide to go left. After about a second I die. The kill cam shows an enemy walking down an alleyway and turning right. He sees me with my back facing him, and shoots. What did I learn? I should have gone right instead?

I am outside. There are bushes and trees. I am looking around for enemies as I advance. Bullets fly from a bush and I die. The kill cam shows an enemy hiding in a bush that clearly saw me and killed me. What did I learn? Should I shoot every bush I come across now?

I see an enemy running in my direction. I go to shoot, but he makes a sudden movement to the right. My bullet misses by inches, and he opens fire. My gun has a lower rate of fire, and I die. What did I learn? Don't miss?

What have I ever learned from a kill cam that has made me better? Nothing. I knew everything that the kill cam shows. I didn't notice him hiding. I wasn't looking in his direction. I have bad aim. What, is, there, to, learn?

[Gonefshn]

Originally Posted by Hamma

I don't like the idea of killcams but I will wait to see what it plays like.

It would be cool if you could disable killcams of yourself in the options.. course then everyone would have that toggled off.

That would be a perfectly fine option. Being able to disable it means no one complains about it revealing locations or tactics. And I disagree If I was running around cloaking with a knife I would turn it on!

[Tool]

I voted no simply because it really only offers one noticeable benefit, which is a chance to see the different customization options on other players. Which I feel isnt enough of a benefit to warrant its implementation.

[arclegger]

With a game that has as many players as Planetside 2 will.

The odds of you killing someone and the following happens:
They see your killcam/position
They wait to respawn (most likely not exactly at the same spot they died)
They find you (how this happens again is beyond me, enough time has passed that I guarantee you're not in the same position anymore where the player first saw you on the killcam)
That same person kills you because they saw your killcam.

All that happens before you die yourself, or they die again.

The server pop must be incredibly low.

Also, if I die and I see a killcam of 1 guy but the reason I died is because it was a huge 20v20 infantry standoff I don't see how the killcam ruins the game?

For the snipers, I love kill cams if I'm a sniper. I can kill a guy, then go and find a new spot. That guy sees my kill cam and tries to find me at the same spot and I kill him again because I moved 20 yards. Rinse Repeat.

In My Opinion the origin of the killcam into fps games was to get rid of campers (nobody liked campers in the old fps days). Now designers use it to help them flesh out hackers, help new players, and give insight to an experienced player as to why he died. It's not there to break immersion and mess up the guy who's getting the kills.

For the record I'm not in charge of what happens when it comes to killcam, I'm just throwing in my perspective as a player/lover of fps games. I'm for the killcam, but that's just me.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by WaryWizard

How does a kill cam help people learn? Seriously. I cannot fathom a SINGLE instance in which it helps. Someone please tell me how a kill cam is useful in ANY game type other than a 15 min 16vs16 match.

OK, I'll tell you how they have helped me personally.
1) They taught me how to aim better. At first I wasn't quite sure how much I would need to lead a target, especially when sniping. Watching how someone was aiming when they killed me helped me zero in my own aiming.

2) I would learn where certain threats were in times that I thought I was behind cover. Granted this is less useful in a game like Planetside where the maps are sooo much larger, however it will still be a useful tool considering the amount of time people can spend in the game. If you are in the same area more than once, you will benefit from learning something the last time you were there.

3) Avoid frustration. If you see that you got killed by a shot that was just dumb luck because the killer was actually aiming at somebody else and you got caught in the crossfire, you can learn that you just got unlucky and shit happens.

Those are just off the top of my head.

[waldizzo]

I'm hoping the kill cam is not like BFBC2 or BF3's. Seeing that guys emotionless but yet smug face bothers me.

[Tasorin]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Of course myself and the majority of the playerbase do not want it, but since the COD/BF crowd do the team is going to put it in anyway. Not going to argue about it anymore myself.

This is why you don't listen to most the crying a community does.

Kill Cam is bad, M'kay.

That is all.

[Hmr85]

Originally Posted by arclegger

For the snipers, I love kill cams if I'm a sniper. I can kill a guy, then go and find a new spot. That guy sees my kill cam and tries to find me at the same spot and I kill him again because I moved 20 yards. Rinse Repeat.

In My Opinion the origin of the killcam into fps games was to get rid of campers (nobody liked campers in the old fps days). Now designers use it to help them flesh out hackers, help new players, and give insight to an experienced player as to why he died. It's not there to break immersion and mess up the guy who's getting the kills.

I got a couple points I want to throw out there. This might be pretty long.

I see what your say sniper wise. That's a pretty good strategy. But hear me out here. I can count on more than one hand numerous times back in the glory days of PS1 when I myself was able to say alive for more than 15 or 20 minutes in 100+ battles raging on Cyssor. With that said that's more than enough time for a player to respawn numerous times and get back out there to try and find me. Its very easy to stay alive when your 600+ yards out up on some hill over looking the entire battle.

What you need to remember is not all players are gonna go running out into the middle of the field looking for you when they can sit back up on a wall or w/e in the middle of a siege and focus in on that spot they just saw you at for their revenge kill. I found my self that kill cams piss people off and makes them more likely to want to come after ya.

My next thing. This is not a 32 vs 32 game. Camping is an extremely effective strategy in PS. Its one of the only games where its really rewarded. Where not talking CS or UT here where its Death Match and people are freaking out because Barnster1337 managed to find the one spot on the level where everybody has to come straight at him. Its can be hard to move around when you have 100+ other players mowing each other down around you. A lot of snipers in PS1 hardly moved at all. Go back and play and pay attention to what they did. If the rare chance they did stop to relocate they never moved more than 20 yards.

My point in this being if I Shot Raymac, sorry bud from behind 100 yards off and he did not see my round inc. He now knows where to look just by watching the killcam. Its kinda crap imo. So my AO has just been compromised.

The one point you put on there and the only point that I could see it helping with is for hackers. I agree it is very effective at helping you identify hackers pretty quickly.
As for the experience on why they died. They can look up at the chat box / combat chat and see where it says HMR85 (Sniper Rifle) Raymac and go oh I got shot by a sniper. That should tell them going forward maybe they should keep their head down next time they are in that vicinity.
Sorry for the long winded response.

[Aurmanite]

Originally Posted by arclegger

With a game that has as many players as Planetside 2 will.

The odds of you killing someone and the following happens:
They see your killcam/position
They wait to respawn (most likely not exactly at the same spot they died)
They find you (how this happens again is beyond me, enough time has passed that I guarantee you're not in the same position anymore where the player first saw you on the killcam)
That same person kills you because they saw your killcam.

All that happens before you die yourself, or they die again.

The server pop must be incredibly low.

Also, if I die and I see a killcam of 1 guy but the reason I died is because it was a huge 20v20 infantry standoff I don't see how the killcam ruins the game?

For the snipers, I love kill cams if I'm a sniper. I can kill a guy, then go and find a new spot. That guy sees my kill cam and tries to find me at the same spot and I kill him again because I moved 20 yards. Rinse Repeat.

In My Opinion the origin of the killcam into fps games was to get rid of campers (nobody liked campers in the old fps days). Now designers use it to help them flesh out hackers, help new players, and give insight to an experienced player as to why he died. It's not there to break immersion and mess up the guy who's getting the kills.

For the record I'm not in charge of what happens when it comes to killcam, I'm just throwing in my perspective as a player/lover of fps games. I'm for the killcam, but that's just me.

I can dig it.

The reaction to the kill cam in this thread is a little overblown. The whole issue has become somewhat sensationalized.

Breaking immersion in an FPS is literally an argument against something...somehow.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by Hmr85

My point in this being if I Shot Raymac, sorry bud from behind 100 yards off and he did not see my round inc. He now knows where to look just by watching the killcam. Its kinda crap imo. So my AO has just been compromised.

Oh yeah, pick on the skinny kid.

But seriously, in PS1, it would take more than 1 shot so I would at least know the general direction of where the shot came from. It really doesn't take much practice from there to trace back and find where the shooter most likely is hiding. And even if I am hell bent on revenge (which I would be on you especially lol) the snipers are just back from the front lines so you have tons of regular infantry between us. I may be pretty good, but if I can mow my way through 20 guys just to get to you, I deserve to kill you.

While camping does work better in Planetside, staying in 1 spot is still fairly risky and displacing is usually required.