Leaning in Planetside.

[Trafalgar]

Originally Posted by xnorb

Cover systems - they way the are implemented in many games - are plain
stupid. When i'm behind cover i can't magically switch to 3rd person view
and see what i'm shooting.

[Stuff about how if cover system presents only 4 pixels it is very bad.]

What? You've played games with cover systems that aren't in third person or don't switch you to third person when you go into cover? The horror, the horror! Why would anyone do that?

When the player is behind cover and fires out:
Presenting 4 pixels: bad, but I don't think I've ever seen a game that did that except Gears of War, when you blind-fired, and you can't hit anything if blind firing anyways
Presenting your head: realistic and you can still get shot in the head
Presenting half your body: What is this I don't even

No cover system: I'll just stand completely behind cover and poke my gun just far enough out past this wall that my shots don't hit the wall, having the same effect as the 4 pixels solution. Good luck hitting me.

[xnorb]

Originally Posted by Trafalgar

No cover system: I'll just stand completely behind cover and poke my gun just far enough out past this wall that my shots don't hit the wall, having the same effect as the 4 pixels solution. Good luck hitting me.

Aye, as leaning does nothing else -> no need for leaning.

No clue what you wanted to say with the rest of the post, i guess it was
some sort of "I don't agree with your opinion".


I'd love to see PS2 making projectiles being fired from the gun and not
from my eyes - that would give cover a completely different value as you
could hide behind cover and see the enemy, but you can't use it as "haha,
you only see 4 pixel of my head, my gun is shooting in the wall, but i can
perfectly shoot you with my eyes" unfair advantage.

[Trafalgar]

Originally Posted by xnorb

No clue what you wanted to say with the rest of the post, i guess it was
some sort of "I don't agree with your opinion".

Possible ways of presenting the player when they shoot from cover using cover systems.

Er... Why would bullets come from your eyes in this day and age?

[Pillar of Armor]

Most of the discussion here is about whether the leaning mechanic would work or could be implemented. Of course it would work and of course it can. Despite my severe dislike for it in multiplayer, there are aspects of it that would even be fun. The real question is: does it fit PlanetSide?

The main aspect of the PlanetSide that defined the game for so many players was the epic battles. And I mean epic in the original sense of the word... large scale, massive. The mechanics of PlanetSide combat forced players to go head to head with large charges, and those were the defining moments of the game. When 50 attackers were forced to face 50 defenders out in the open, the battles were intense, frantic, and forged some of my favorite memories out of any game I've played.

As soon as lean/cover/prone are added, the combat will become much more methodical. There's nothing wrong with methodical and tactical combat, but the pacing changes and it disincentivizes the kind of open head to head combat that defined PlanetSide and made it stand out after all this time.

[Electrofreak]

I'm not sure how I feel about lean. On one side, with the TTK as short as it is in the current alpha build, something like lean could make survivability a little higher.

That said, PS was always a very aggressive game. Not dying because of a few shots to the head made it a game where you could afford to step out from behind cover and assault a target. Focus was placed upon a player's ability to aim (in most circumstances) and their equipment/implant loadout.

With lean I worry that some of the combat could become too stagnant with people electing to stay behind their cover and the relative safety afforded by leaning and firing compared to crouch-and-strafe.

But still, I'm on the fence about it because as long as the crowd mentality doesn't become focused upon survival rather than assault tactics I see it as potentially another useful ability to keep combat dynamic and interesting.

Remember, Auraxis is a world where soldiers die and are reborn. The emphasis on combat is typically assault; if defenders have too many tools at their disposal that make capturing a base difficult, battles will drag out for too long and things will become boring. So ultimately it will depend upon whether abilities like lean and prone would tip that scale too far in either direction.

[Ductape]

I really dont see leaning being that important. It will be nice once in a blue moon, but for the most part, I feel that if you are leaning on attack, your doing something wrong. You should be moving forward, or taking cover to let your shields recharge. When you stop to lean, you are slowing your momentum. On defense it would be more useful, but I still think that it wont have that big of an effect.

[Zolan]

I really don't care about leaning. It's one of those things that people make a big deal about for no good reason.

It'll probably make things worse for players in terms of defense now that registered head-shots are in, as you'll convince the greenhorns to shoot at your head and not your feet.

[Zolan]

I forgot about cover/cover mechanic.

Absolutely not...

It works in single player games, but not in MMOs.

Cite: SWTOR

[Otleaz]

Originally Posted by Zolan

I really don't care about leaning. It's one of those things that people make a big deal about for no good reason.

I'm not saying it will necessarily be good for the game, but often times it is a big deal. Seemingly insignificant features could drastically change the way the game plays and feels.

Look at Diablo 2 and Diablo 3.

Diablo 2 has been called and is still called a masterpiece.
Diablo 3 is a piece of garbage and a waste of money.

They are practically the same game, with only the small "insignificant" features removed or changed. Those small unnecessary features are what made Diablo 2 fantastic... Unfortunately nobody thought to hire someone from the D2 team to work on D3.

[basti]

Originally Posted by Blackwolf

After Basti's decidedly hasty closure of the previous thread (the discussion was mostly about lean, something that hasn't been spoken of much in the game) I decided to make my own post and poll.

I'm less leery about lean then prone. If they added lean though, the game play would turn more Mass Effect, which could be potentially awesome, and at the same time a complete disaster.

I'll agree that lean has merits and encourages the use of cover > run and gun and could improve the game.

But I suspect that implementing a cover system at this stage of the game would be difficult. Also considering you can use cover without a lean feature, and use quicker movement to avoid full exposure for long periods of time to "glance" around corners, an entire system for this just isn't needed.

As it stands, the game is too complicated. Wouldn't mind seeing it in beta if this was an easy system to put in, but it just isn't worth the work without solid data, hence this poll. Something like this would be better off being tried and tested in the alpha stages tbh.

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing lean in this game. Mass Effect had lean and was built around a very good cover mechanic, and it did not have prone. Judging by my enjoyment of that game I'd say lean would be cool, but again not absolutely vital.

Aim & Shoot: Allow players the ability to lean, aim, and shoot while minimizing (by 50% or so) the amount of visible body.

Just Look: A quick peek, either forced timer (2 seconds) or as long as the button is held.

Absalutely no leaning: Self explanatory.

Cover Mechanic: A system that can be as simple as crouch near an object would automatically put you into a position for leaning. You keep your head below cover and hope no one has a good angle on you. While "in cover" A and D would lean left or right, if crouched behind a low wall or whatever, W would raise your head and shoulders above. Un-crouch to exit cover.

No Cover Mechanic: Free movement without locking into a set position. Would require additional buttons for leaning left or right, and higher sources of cover so people could stand to shoot. This might affect game play too much to effectively add an actual lean feature.

Multiple choice for a better idea what people are talking about, because no one ever mentions what they have in mind.

No repeating arguments please. If you say camping, explain what you mean and/or give an example because that is just a very very weak argument.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is how you do a proper thread on a hot topic.

[CTheRain]

If I wanted realism in a shooter I'd join the Army... O wait

[Poser]

Originally Posted by Otleaz

I'm not saying it will necessarily be good for the game, but often times it is a big deal. Seemingly insignificant features could drastically change the way the game plays and feels.

Yup. Removing lean and adding regen, ruined the pacing of Call of Duty. It made all the small maps* unplayable.

[Rago]

I Dislike Leaning in Every Game, so i go for No LEANING.

I like it more the UT,Quake,Nexuiz Style of Game...
As for COD i dont like it, dont hate me for That.

Dont get me Wrong "realistic" Games like CS are fun for a Day, but Imho i prefer "Fun over Realism, its okay to take a Hit or two without being Dead.

Free Movement is Freedom for me.