News: New TotalBiscuit Video on IMPLANTS

[Sifer2]

Originally Posted by Lord Paladin

Remember, they don't want the difference in power or effectiveness between a 5 minute player and a 5 year player to be large. They want the difference to be in skill. These are to give you an edge, and to maybe help define your play-style, but not to give you a straight up advantage.

I'm pretty sure when they said that they meant they didn't want you leveling up to give you permanent boosts that give you a huge edge over a newbie. Like BR20 giving you double the health or something.

In the case of Implants though you have a limited number of slots. I feel like they should be powerful so that each person runs with a different set of them that suits their playstyle. Right now they are so weak it just doesn't matter. PS1 had much cooler implants, and they did not break the game. Being able to see a cloaker, or run extra fast. It was like picking perks in COD. Something fun and noticeable. Not this boring reload a millisecond faster crap.

[Salad Snake]

Originally Posted by Otleaz

I like how SOE claims veterancy in this field yet keeps making blunders that numerous other F2P games have moved past, including tribes. I hope they fix this over the course of beta...




That is exactly why the implants are crossing the line.

I don't play competitive games to win because I had enough in game currency to afford the best gear...
I play them to put myself against other people. Our situational awareness, our tactical proficiency, our ability to react, our ability to aim, our experience and knowledge about the game.

Do you know how much enjoyment I get out of knowing that the guy I just beat had inferior gear? 0. Do you know how much enjoyment I get out of knowing that the guy I just lost to had superior gear? 0.

A full, permanent loadout INCLUDING IMPLANTS should be given to new players either at arrival to the game, or over the course of their first few hours in game, bringing them onto a competitive level.

This isn't some shitty MMO where you are wacking on rabbits so you can eventually beat up pigs, this is a shooter and should be treated as such.


That is a gimmick they used to hype the game. They already destroyed the "resource game" by introducing a resource booster.

You do realize that in a game like this you'll rarely encounter even fights right? One side will always have the advantage in certs, resources, numbers, terrain, or any number of other variables. That's the nature of large-scale strategy.

[Otleaz]

Originally Posted by Salad Snake

You do realize that in a game like this you'll rarely encounter even fights right? One side will always have the advantage in certs, resources, numbers, terrain, or any number of other variables. That's the nature of large-scale strategy.

Other than certs(which I mentioned earlier in the thread), those are all player created circumstances. It isn't unfair at all, the ones on the receiving end are just getting out-played.

Unfair is dying because your headshot deviated randomly and the enemy sniper killed you before you could get a second shot off. Unfair is dying because someone crit 3 times in a row. Unfair is someone having even 1% more killing power than you just because they played more or payed money.

EDIT: I unconsciously mistook your "uneven" for "unfair" when writing my post. Regardless, the principle still applies.

[WVoneseven]

Its obvious that these are meant to be the vehicle purchases of the footsoldier. Instead of going to a station to buy a tank you purchase 3 implants to boost your on ground performance.
I can see these being used a lot by well organised outfits with designated positions. The footsoldiers spend their in game on giving themselves just that little bit of superiority when on the ground. While the drivers/gunner etc etc will either not buy any implants and save it in case they need a backup vehicle.

[Scotsh]

Originally Posted by Otleaz

Unfair is dying because your headshot deviated randomly and the enemy sniper killed you before you could get a second shot off. Unfair is dying because someone crit 3 times in a row. Unfair is someone having even 1% more killing power than you just because they played more or payed money.

You are even more of a purist than the "omg, PS2 is P2W"-guy in the other thread.
To me, and quite frankly i think this is by far the most common definition, P2W is when there are things in the game which make you superior (i.e. weapons, skills etc.) and are ONLY aquirable with money and not by playing. Sometimes when things would need an absurd amount of playing i would also put that in the P2W category.
PS2 has none of that (at least yet). How this thing with the implants will turn out? We will see, serious balancing hasnt even begun in this matter and there are various varables to consider.

As it stands now, resource- and XP-boosters are Pay2Skip and enable you to have the same stuff like players playing more than you. I for one welcome that, as i plan on investing regularly some money if i like the game and want it to continue. If that brings me a little more up to speed with those kids playing 8h a day and never giving a dime, good.

[Scotsh]

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

Every 24 hours goto SOE shop to re-up implants? Annoying as fuck.

Well, just from the TB video you can do it in game with like 3 clicks. Way less complicated than looting somebody in PS1 with the inventory system.

[cellinaire]

Originally Posted by Scotsh

You are even more of a purist than the "omg, PS2 is P2W"-guy in the other thread.
To me, and quite frankly i think this is by far the most common definition, P2W is when there are things in the game which make you superior (i.e. weapons, skills etc.) and are ONLY aquirable with money and not by playing. Sometimes when things would need an absurd amount of playing i would also put that in the P2W category.
PS2 has none of that (at least yet). How this thing with the implants will turn out? We will see, serious balancing hasnt even begun in this matter and there are various varables to consider.

As it stands now, resource- and XP-boosters are Pay2Skip and enable you to have the same stuff like players playing more than you. I for one welcome that, as i plan on investing regularly some money if i like the game and want it to continue. If that brings me a little more up to speed with those kids playing 8h a day and never giving a dime, good.

This. And I have to wonder why he even pay attention to f2p games with the criterion of him. I mean, "let's discuss" is all fine and dandy, but should these implants on the video give me a disadvantage, then I know I just suck very much at playing FPS games in general.

The only complaint I have now would be the '24 hours' thing. I hope that means, '24 hours of playtime'. If not, well that sucks real bad.

(and Otleaz, don't get your hopes up if you think SOE will change this game during Beta to reflect your thinking.)

[Klockan]

Originally Posted by LZachariah

I think with the present iteration of the Implants, most people will not bother. And therefore, I think it will get reworked. Beta will bring good things :-)

~Zachariah

I checked the resources before and it seems like you will get ~200-300 auraxium per hour so you need to play just ~2-3 hours to max your implants each day. Of course then you can't buy any new gear so this will mostly be done by people who already have gotten everything they want. The point is that they should be a resource sink.

Edit: I think the main reason for this resource though is so that people who can't wait to spend their auraxium will use it all on implants all the time so when they want to buy guns they would have to spend real money. A majority of people are like this, they love spending stuff if they can.

[IAMDANIEL]

In Theroy this seems like a cool idea. The video shows it quite nicely. I could see them makeing changes to it for the better and for the worst, worst being this is there reserve on having to go to "pay to win" if the money they expect to make doesnt happen.

Dont get me wrong i hope it goes great and smooth. i pray this game suceeds. im looking forward to it just as much as the rest of yall.

[Otleaz]

Originally Posted by Scotsh

You are even more of a purist than the "omg, PS2 is P2W"-guy in the other thread.
To me, and quite frankly i think this is by far the most common definition, P2W is when there are things in the game which make you superior (i.e. weapons, skills etc.) and are ONLY aquirable with money and not by playing. Sometimes when things would need an absurd amount of playing i would also put that in the P2W category.
PS2 has none of that (at least yet). How this thing with the implants will turn out? We will see, serious balancing hasnt even begun in this matter and there are various varables to consider.

I believe you are getting too caught up in the definition of Pay 2 win and are ignoring what is important here.

Why is it that someone who plays less also has to suffer through being weaker than everybody else unless they pay money? In this situation the things this person want ARE only acquirable with money, due to him not having enough time.


The solution is easier than you may think, though. All they need to do is give you a competitive implant set that is permanent to start with, such as 3 health or shield implants. This would make implants a sidegrade, rather than an upgrade.

Originally Posted by cellinaire

(and Otleaz, don't get your hopes up if you think SOE will change this game during Beta to reflect your thinking.)

I'm more interested in the subject rather than the execution. Having people to bounce my ideas off of will help me understand other perspectives and hopefully change my horribly jaded view. You think it is fun not being able to accept the developers decisions? Of course you don't, it sucks.

[Klockan]

Originally Posted by Otleaz

I believe you are getting too caught up in the definition of Pay 2 win and are ignoring what is important here.

Why is it that someone who plays less also has to suffer through being weaker than everybody else unless they pay money? In this situation the things this person want ARE only acquirable with money, due to him not having enough time.



The solution is easier than you may think, though. All they need to do is give you a competitive implant set that is permanent to start with, such as 3 health or shield implants. This would make implants a sidegrade, rather than an upgrade.

The best would probably be to give the implants a non combat disadvantage. Such as making their respawn time a bit longer or making the squad spawn cooldown longer. If each implant added 5 seconds to your respawn timer and made you worth 10 points extra when killed I think it would be fair.

In many situations you would then be better off without the implants but people usually prefer power over respawn timers so it will still be something people will want to buy.

[Scotsh]

Originally Posted by Otleaz

Why is it that someone who plays less also has to suffer through being weaker than everybody else unless they pay money? In this situation the things this person want ARE only acquirable with money, due to him not having enough time.

Valid point, but (to get caught up in the defintion again) please call it Grind2Win then
Of course this a concession to the F2P model, as boosters are a common and accepted feature of F2P games. We will have to wait to see how much it actually impacts the game, from what i have seen in this video i personally consider implants negible and nice to have, nothing more.

[Nathaniak]

Originally Posted by Otleaz

Ignorance is bliss I guess. I suppose I will never see the glory of losing a battle due to not paying money, or barely making it out alive because the sniper shooting at me didn't play enough to buy upgrades for his gun.

Woe is me...

Not. Certs are gained by experience. XP cannot be bougt outright, only indirectly with a booster. Certs have been said to not unlock more powerful weapons, only adjusted weapons with different tradeoffs. The 'most important' certs for you will be unlocked relativly quickly anyway as you choose them first.

Beyond the first few unlocks, certs simply give you more options, not simply more raw power.

[Otleaz]

Originally Posted by Nathaniak

Not. Certs are gained by experience. XP cannot be bougt outright, only indirectly with a booster. Certs have been said to not unlock more powerful weapons, only adjusted weapons with different tradeoffs. The 'most important' certs for you will be unlocked relativly quickly anyway as you choose them first.

Beyond the first few unlocks, certs simply give you more options, not simply more raw power.

The discussion is about implants, not certs.

Originally Posted by Scotsh

Valid point, but (to get caught up in the defintion again) please call it Grind2Win then
Of course this a concession to the F2P model, as boosters are a common and accepted feature of F2P games. We will have to wait to see how much it actually impacts the game, from what i have seen in this video i personally consider implants negible and nice to have, nothing more.

The problem goes a bit deeper than that. The solution isn't to remove boosters. Boosters are fine. The problem wouldn't even be fixed by removing them.

[Firearms]

24hr Auraxian hrs for resources. make them semi/permanent for station cash.
That would sound like a valid model to me