Spawns DESPERATELY need a redesign...

[Rumblepit]

didnt have time to read this entire thread but i had to say this real quick. its a very easy fix.

add a scu to all bases and outpost, when the scu goes down, shields on all spawn rooms go down. the only way to stop players from spawning in to a base is to destroy the spawn tubes. thus camping players coming from these tubes will result in a destroyed spawn tube.
there you have it,your fix and the end to spawn camping. there was another game that had a system like this but i dont recall right now.

[OCNSethy]

I agree that the spawn mechanic needs a complete review and overhaul... no argument there.

But regarding those players in the farmed spawn room, I do believe there are two groups at play here.

1) Players that spawn, run out, die and respawn at the same room, rinse, repeat

2) Players recently killed defending the facility, spawning back into the spawn room but not realising its been camped.

I dont know how many times Ive fallen onto the second group. Im fighting on the fringes with my map zoom up and been killed. Fine, back to the spawn room to regroup... oh oops, we're camped.

I dont understand why Group 1 does what it does. However, if Im going to die, I will pull a Max and take as may of the enemy with me before the shields drop. If I die before that time, Ill spawn to the next rally point / facility and try and mount a counter-attack with anyone thats there.

Now, before anyone says "im part of the problem" I would suggest that this is the mechanic we have at this point of time. Until the devs have a light bulb moment and change this god-aweful system, thats the choices that are availble.

There are some sterling suggestions for improvement in this thread, if only the devs would take the time to read it through.

[camycamera]

Originally Posted by OCNSethy

I agree that the spawn mechanic needs a complete review and overhaul... no argument there.

But regarding those players in the farmed spawn room, I do believe there are two groups at play here.

1) Players that spawn, run out, die and respawn at the same room, rinse, repeat

2) Players recently killed defending the facility, spawning back into the spawn room but not realising its been camped.

I dont know how many times Ive fallen onto the second group. Im fighting on the fringes with my map zoom up and been killed. Fine, back to the spawn room to regroup... oh oops, we're camped.

I dont understand why Group 1 does what it does. However, if Im going to die, I will pull a Max and take as may of the enemy with me before the shields drop. If I die before that time, Ill spawn to the next rally point / facility and try and mount a counter-attack with anyone thats there.

Now, before anyone says "im part of the problem" I would suggest that this is the mechanic we have at this point of time. Until the devs have a light bulb moment and change this god-aweful system, thats the choices that are availble.

There are some sterling suggestions for improvement in this thread, if only the devs would take the time to read it through.

hahaaha i remember yesterday a group of idiots were sat inside the spawn room shooting at us; i was in a small squad with hardly anyone else, but we were clearly capping the base yet they sat in there taking pot shots at us while we capped their base.... some people are stuuuuuuuuuuuppid

[OCNSethy]

Originally Posted by camycamera

hahaaha i remember yesterday a group of idiots were sat inside the spawn room shooting at us; i was in a small squad with hardly anyone else, but we were clearly capping the base yet they sat in there taking pot shots at us while we capped their base.... some people are stuuuuuuuuuuuppid

They would fall into group 1, I guess

Im referring to the big fights that are had at Hvar Tech plant and the like.

[ringring]

I really don't understand this 'mustn't be able to shoot out'.

If you don't like being killed by folk in the spawns that's entirely in your hands.

If you want the folk in the spawns to come out so that you can kill them, well why would they oblige you?

There's nothing wrong with it, as long as the spawns are in a better position so that the defensive fight lasts longer ..... and look at the new Esamir that was shown on FNO about 3 weeks ago, the bases will be changed.

[Jonny]

I think it's a bad idea because it encourages this weird hide behind the shield fighting. The real gameplay should be around the base/on the battlefield not to and fro poking out a shield. I agree with placing the spawns underground and having various coridoor and fast tube exists to discourage spawn camping. I also like the idea of a main objective that when destroyed disables defenders from spawning, but working towards this objective could be generators which allow attackers to advance/more options of attack.

I'm not against spawns being re enterable all together, if they are constructed the way whiteagle mentioned. The spawn camping/shield fights need thinking about. What could both parties be doing instead...probably having more fun in a real tactical tug or war to capture/defend the base.

[Figment]

The main reason this fighting from behind the shield is promoted is because there is no additional buffer zone between the spawn area and the outer combat area.


The shield IS the entire "indoor-outdoor transition zone".

Which means that if you DO NOT sit behind the shield, you instantly die and you will lose.

If you DO sit behind the shield, you will not die, for a while, but you will also lose.

It's no-win, no-win situation.


Given a same type of base (thus same type of hardware available) a lot of people can comprehend this hardware advantage:

...................................<--x-->
Friendly Base - Near Field - Field - Far Field - Enemy Base
Friendly Hardware Adv........Even...Enemy Hardware Adv

But what they fail to see is that it is actually expands like this:

.................................................. ...........<--x-->
Friendly Courtyard - Friendly Base - Near Field - Field - Far Field - Enemy Base - Enemy Courtyard
Enemy Hardware Adv....Friendly Hardware Adv...Even...Enemy hardware Adv.....Friendly Hardware Adv

Because once the courtyard is lost, defenders lost the benefit of nearby vehicles (which they held in the field). All that they have left is infantry. At that point, there is no combined arms defense, but there is combined arms offense. In other words, the attackers have the hardware advantage (and probably are in control of the vehicle facilities that are usualy part of the courtyard).


If you had a progressive indoor fight zone for infantry, where the order of danger is:

......................................<-- x -->..../ High Ground \
Spawnroom - SCU - Indoor - Objective - Indoor - Outdoor - Enemy AMS
...........shield.................................................Attacker Hardware Advantage

Then the defender would have a bit of an advantage. Mostly because taking out the AMS should be easier than taking out the SCU and the defenders would start holding the "right hand side" indoor area.

Instead, we have:

.../ High Ground \.........<-- x -->
Spawnroom - Outdoor - Objective - Enemy AMS
...........shield....Attacker Hardware Advantage

Which isn't defender friendly, at all, hands the logistical advantage to attackers and can never lead to fair fighting over the base or outpost.