Wow. This place really died, eh?

[Ghost Runner]

Need maps, ants, and an IC lattic and we would have a really great game too bad the maps take so long to get out the rest would be pretty easy to impliment.

Also this place hasent died it has plenty viewers come around on a daily basis just no one seem to want ot say anything anymore. Must be all the bitter cold floating around here fingers are frozen lol.

[Figment]

The maps wouldn't have needed to take so long tbh, too much focus on custom building early on without first knowing if it was a good design. All maps have been redone several times over.

[p0intman]

Originally Posted by Figment

The maps wouldn't have needed to take so long tbh, too much focus on custom building early on without first knowing if it was a good design. All maps have been redone several times over.

of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these:

Figment was right again.

[ringring]

Originally Posted by Figment

The maps wouldn't have needed to take so long tbh, too much focus on custom building early on without first knowing if it was a good design. All maps have been redone several times over.

and look how many bases/outposts there are on a continent - if they'd created another continent, not built half the bases on one and instead put them on the second then I'd doubt it would take that much longer.

so why did they decide to have fewer continent jam packed with bases? I don't know, maybe because they wanted to get 5000 people on each continent and to do that they reckoned they would have to spread out the players over a lot of different locations? I don't know.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by p0intman

of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these:

Figment was right again.

As if I'm ever wrong.

[Figment]

I understand where they came from though, to them, when they first met "us" as a playerbase, we were random unknown, opionated people, with a huge touch of conservatism that could have been considered a strong bias. And who says bias is right? I personally think our argumentation had less to do with conservatism than functionality, (player) pragmatism and practical implementation, but then there were our forum opponents who accused us otherwise. (See driver-gunner debate et all).

They were relatively fresh and less "constrained" in their thinking. So why listen to people who "might just want a copy of a game with updated graphics", as some of the more fanboyish white knighting forum members suggested at times?

They had a huge question of trust and blind faith on who to listen to. And I will keep saying, they did listen to forum members on a lot of things. But they had to in some ways due to a lack of insight, experience and having a broad, vagueish vision of what the game should be, without much of the details filled in, which can't really be helped since they had little to fall back on and they themselves had not done something similar or so ambitious to learn from before. All in all they did a reasonable job given the circumstances and I'm sure if they would do it again, they would do many things differently from the start.

I don't really fault the devs in that respect.

The only thing I would have liked to have seen is have them come to me, Hayoo and Hamma when we were together in the Community Council (as was Raijinn's intention) as a soundboard for ideas, concepts and general design guidelines. In the three years I've been on board that community council, not once had we been asked to provide early pre-alpha feedback. Raijinn got us in that council for one reason and one reason only: to be there for the devs of PS2 (PS1 was to be considered dead at that point, even if we did transfer some feedback about it, it was never really used).

The only thing I think they might have picked up on was the marketing and monetization concepts I proposed for PS2, which was tremendously better than that of PS1 and I think in general a major success and turning point for SOE. Because Smedley pretty much echoed my words on that. All in all, I think SOE has improved itself and learned a lot these past few years. Maybe not as fast and as well as we would have liked them to and more often from own mistakes than past mistakes/successes of others, but it's a company. We're clients, but also outsiders. Changing our vision and creating our ideas is much easier than convincing a company's management and transfering specific knowledge (especially hard to attain experience based knowledge) to all its employees.

I do fault specific devs at times for "common sense" mistakes, like the teleporter == firing squad designs.

[Calista]

Would have been far better off to have smaller continents (less development time) with fewer facilities (allow for combined arms) and less players per continent (better performance) but hey "Size Always Matters" and indeed it does but in this case to the detriment of the game. I bet on PS4 version they had to cut continent player count in half what it is on the PC. Either that or bring back old hex cap system to make sure everyone is spread out to the max but then where are the big advertised fights?

[stargazer093]

so..... do any of you still have the faith, that PS2 will last longer and ever made to the level of PS1? Just wondering

[p0intman]

Originally Posted by stargazer093

so..... do any of you still have the faith, that PS2 will last longer and ever made to the level of PS1? Just wondering

See the explosive gif in my sig? Thats about what SOE did to PS2. Its dead. Very dead. To the tune of 50 boomers.

V-S-A-M dead.

Its so dead that what SOE are currently doing to it might be considered necromancy.

Lately im playing Payday 2 for my shooter fix.

[ringring]

PS2 could do alright if they keep attracting new players all the time. I doubt very much that individual players will stick at it for the length of time people did with ps1, some people did anyway.

But you can already see that many current players never experienced what was possible as demonstrated in the original and therefore don't really notice the lack, until they get bored.

[Calista]

Originally Posted by stargazer093

so..... do any of you still have the faith, that PS2 will last longer and ever made to the level of PS1? Just wondering

I think if it doesn't do well on the PS4 you can stick a fork in it. It's done.

[Ghost Runner]

I think its doing well enough still some times see wait ques for continents also never seem to run out of people to shoot me lol.

They really should create free expansions once or twice a year to bring in newer players through advertising like other MMOs do though would help alot.

[Vancha]

Well hi...

I decided to drop by to see if PS2 had improved any since I tried it back in April '13, but since this forum has the tone of a post-mortem, it doesn't seem like it.

Reading this thread reminded me of two things...

1: Arguing with Figment pre-beta about the decision to remove the AMS, shift its respawn function to the Galaxy and the effect on black-ops outfits from PS1. As it turned out the game didn't end up having the structure for most of it to be applicable.

2: "We got this!" The mantra of the devs in response to the problems people foresaw occurring. This thread reads identically to a lot of threads before the game's release, only in the past-tense as opposed to predictions. It's a little sickening how many problems people saw coming from a mile off that were allowed to occur regardless.

Still, this forum's still using my little buttons and envelopes, so there's that at least.

[p0intman]

Originally Posted by Vancha

Well hi...

I decided to drop by to see if PS2 had improved any since I tried it back in April '13, but since this forum has the tone of a post-mortem, it doesn't seem like it.

Reading this thread reminded me of two things...

1: Arguing with Figment pre-beta about the decision to remove the AMS, shift its respawn function to the Galaxy and the effect on black-ops outfits from PS1. As it turned out the game didn't end up having the structure for most of it to be applicable.

2: "We got this!" The mantra of the devs in response to the problems people foresaw occurring. This thread reads identically to a lot of threads before the game's release, only in the past-tense as opposed to predictions. It's a little sickening how many problems people saw coming from a mile off that were allowed to occur regardless.

Still, this forum's still using my little buttons and envelopes, so there's that at least.

hey man, how have you been? it has been a little bit.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Vancha

1: Arguing with Figment pre-beta about the decision to remove the AMS, shift its respawn function to the Galaxy and the effect on black-ops outfits from PS1. As it turned out the game didn't end up having the structure for most of it to be applicable.

"Told you so."

2: "We got this!" The mantra of the devs in response to the problems people foresaw occurring. This thread reads identically to a lot of threads before the game's release, only in the past-tense as opposed to predictions. It's a little sickening how many problems people saw coming from a mile off that were allowed to occur regardless.

"Told you so."