What class should carry ammo packs?

[Dagron]

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

LA because when ammo needs to get somewhere, it needs to get somewhere 5 minutes ago usually - you want ammo associated with a COMMON and FAST MOVING class so that ammo can actually get to where it needs to be. LA is that class.

It's also better since LA characters, by nature, have light arms rather than heavy arms. Every other class seems to have some kind of power weapon that giving them the ability to ammo spawn would leave broken.

^This.

However, in case there's really no way to keep ammo drop with the LA, i guess engis could be a good choice to have it. Though only if it's a loadout choice between deploying a dispenser or droping ammo.

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by NMnine

Look here Planetside 2 E3 Stream - Day 3 - (feat. Totalbiscuit and Margaret Krohn) - YouTube at 1:37:30

The ammo pack just lies there slowly ticking his ammo up. Not instant.

Many thanks m8 for finding this, I thought it was that way, then my previous points are not invalid after all.

[Electrofreak]

Originally Posted by WildVS

Only thing I have as reference is Higby using LA. He must be providing some insight into it's playability with this decision to move ammo drops to another class. I remember him saying how easy it easy it was to kite a max down and we all thought LA couldn't do it. We just have to trust in them to do the right thing minus our presence in game for the moment.

LA shouldn't be (by definition) a heavy determination on the battlefield. We'll see what happens but for now I support engy getting that ability.

Light assault should be a harassment skill. Not much more IMO. But to kill a MAX. well they must see something we don't.

Maybe Higby just has mad skillz.

[Rexdezi]

I think with the Engineer having the Resupply point... I'd be in favour of getting rid of ammo drops altogether... maybe running over the dead body of someone with the same weapon as you could resupply, but a MAX couldn't run over the body of an Infiltrator to get ammo

[Dagron]

Originally Posted by WildVS

I remember him saying how easy it easy it was to kite a max down and we all thought LA couldn't do it.
...
LA shouldn't be (by definition) a heavy determination on the battlefield.

Being good at what they do doesn't make it ok to only do one thing... If they're too good at kiting MAXes, maybe giving them another role would divide the number of players into those roles. That would mean less of them kiting MAXes and so making their over the top heavy determination on the battlefield less of an issue.

[Saintlycow]

Originally Posted by Immigrant

Yeah I know, I'm aware of my shortcomings (intolerance to lack of respect and attention is one of them). That's why I apologized in advance and I will do it again. I'm sorry.

In my defense though I'm quite aware it not good enough: You were the third guy mentioning the same "problem" in a very "vocal" manner which was already covered in OP prior to any of you posting it, and was I sick of having to explain to every single one of you guys personally and all because none of you bothered to read OP (or as we hear so often "I scanned/skimmed it" excuse) yet all of you want to participate in discussion. It's the minimum sign of respect to look the OP for things you want to comment on.

Yeah your right. Sorry for getting my figurative panties in a bunch

After actually reading the OP ( which actually makes sense ), I do agree with your idea.


Although I am now going to make a different suggestion. How about having two different types of ammo boxes? One that could be used for heavier ammo, Like MAX ammo and rockets, which you give to the light assault. This way all he can really end up doing is throwing useless boxes to himself.

On the contrary, give a light ammo box to the HA. He can only resupply bullets. No infinite rockets unless he works with the LA

[atone]

what bothers me about giving ammo to the LA is that it seems counter productive to its normal function. LA's job is to be forward, flanking, hit and run, take advantage of weakness in an enemy defense quickly then bug out. his focus is going to be that. Do you really want to keep calling him back for more ammo? Its just illogical to give that guy all the ammo. Also being a free to play there are going to be a lot of randoms just out for themselves. i foresee a lot of ammo crates on ledges and rooftops, and that just sounds really annoying.

If you make him trade off his jet-pack for an ammo crate you change his role. that becomes the units sole purpose cause he has nothing else, that is going to far i think. he's not heavily armored nor has significant AP and you've at that point made him an easy target, all so that the rest of the team can have easy access to more ammunition. Increase his armor and he's almost an HA. That's why I am for giving the ammo to the HA. its more inline with its class role. they are the backbone of a major assault. giving them the ammo benefits the whole team. whether that was the intention or not. team play!
MAX units although heavily armored perform more like a battering ram. giving them more ammunition is OP.
Engineers already do have access to a lot (and i suspect, and hope that there is more to come).
Giving it to the medics just seems odd. i don't know why really.
And infiltrator well nuff sed bout that...

[Dagron]

Originally Posted by atone

what bothers me about giving ammo to the LA is that it seems counter productive to its normal function. LA's job is to be forward, flanking, hit and run, take advantage of weakness in an enemy defense quickly then bug out. his focus is going to be that. Do you really want to keep calling him back for more ammo? Its just illogical to give that guy all the ammo.

How about giving him the option to drop ammo or drop C4? It would give them a choice to either be in the front line or behind it as support. That's what i've been saying all along.

Originally Posted by atone

Also being a free to play there are going to be a lot of randoms just out for themselves. i foresee a lot of ammo crates on ledges and rooftops, and that just sounds really annoying.

Also something i said before: if one side is full of selfish zerglins who don't share ammo and stay on roof tops getting bombed by aircrafts and bitchslaped by snipers, their team should lose (that's punishing bad behaviour).

If on the other hand a squad has a designated man behind the lines on defense/resuply duty, they should get enough ammo and security to stay on top (that's rewarding team play, which is what PS2 is all about i think).

Originally Posted by atone

If you make him trade off his jet-pack for an ammo crate you change his role. that becomes the units sole purpose cause he has nothing else, that is going to far i think.

Trading the jump pack for the ammo is not just a bad idea... it's insane! It would remove the whole purpose why it was a good idea for him to have the ammo in the first place.

Originally Posted by atone

That's why I am for giving the ammo to the HA. its more inline with its class role. they are the backbone of a major assault. giving them the ammo benefits the whole team. whether that was the intention or not. team play!

Again: giving the ammo to whoever is going to really need it defeats the ability's purpose. Just increase their ammo reserves instead and end what could be an interesting utility skill, that'd be the same thing.

Originally Posted by atone

MAX units although heavily armored perform more like a battering ram. giving them more ammunition is OP.
Engineers already do have access to a lot (and i suspect, and hope that there is more to come).
Giving it to the medics just seems odd. i don't know why really.
And infiltrator well nuff sed bout that...

I don't like the idea of MAXes carrying the squishie's ammo (you're already pretty much a light vehicle with monster firepower), i'm starting to think engis would actually be an ok alternative to LAs carrying ammo (see my previous posts), i agree with the medic part (although thinking it's weird is not a very strong argument) and infiltrators... yeah, nuff said.





PS: sry for the constant edits, i'm a little compulsive.

[Hypevosa]

Originally Posted by atone

what bothers me about giving ammo to the LA is that it seems counter productive to its normal function. LA's job is to be forward, flanking, hit and run, take advantage of weakness in an enemy defense quickly then bug out. his focus is going to be that. Do you really want to keep calling him back for more ammo?

It's better than him having to always keep running back to get ammo for just himself?

Think of it this way - he can play delivery boy and forward assault for anyone on the front lines and keep his own rather pissy guns constantly stocked, rather than having to be STATIONARY as he waits for someone to spawn ammo so he can get it, run out, waste it, and come back for more.

This is the only class that makes alot of sense to have the ammo dispensing, because it's the one whose gameplay allows them to not always be hovering around their own squad. As the unit that serves best when it abuses its mobility, it is the one that needs ammo and is also the best ammo dispenser.

[Resolve]

Originally Posted by Dagron

How about giving him the option to drop ammo or drop C4? It would give them a choice to either be in the front line or behind it as support. That's what i've been saying all along.

This is a good thing. Give us the option.

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by Saintlycow

Yeah your right. Sorry for getting my figurative panties in a bunch

No prob, we're good now.

Originally Posted by Saintlycow

Although I am now going to make a different suggestion. How about having two different types of ammo boxes? One that could be used for heavier ammo, Like MAX ammo and rockets, which you give to the light assault. This way all he can really end up doing is throwing useless boxes to himself.

On the contrary, give a light ammo box to the HA. He can only resupply bullets. No infinite rockets unless he works with the LA

Sounds like a good way to force coop and class interdependence, however I fear this is where it main flaw lies since could disrupt game play too much if many player choose disregard these rules and choose to solo. On the other side even if HA decides to solo he would still unintentionally most efficiently provide ammo for other too as I explained before.

I believe that those Supply Terminals Engies will be able to deploy will fulfill the role of resupplying the ammo for all which means heavy weapons too what should be enough. This would still leave much of HAs functionality dependent on work of Engies (provided that HA heavy weapons ammo pool is quite limited, i.e. 2-5 AA rocket per launcher).

[Dagron]

Originally Posted by Saintlycow

How about having two different types of ammo boxes? One that could be used for heavier ammo, Like MAX ammo and rockets, which you give to the light assault. This way all he can really end up doing is throwing useless boxes to himself.

On the contrary, give a light ammo box to the HA. He can only resupply bullets. No infinite rockets unless he works with the LA

Originally Posted by Immigrant

Sounds like a good way to force coop and class interdependence, however I fear this is where it main flaw lies since could disrupt game play too much if many player choose disregard these rules and choose to solo.

I too like this suggestion and not only for the merits you pointed out... i love it in part because i also like punishing the side with the most players who disregard team play (see my previous posts).

[atone]

So far C4 has been accessible to most/all classes with resource cost(i think). I think changing that would affect a bunch of other systems.

You can't make everyone play the way you think they should. there are going to be those players that don't care to play well with others, and they will die more for it but your also penalizing everyone who may actually be trying but just happen to be in their squad or just in the area. and again it can be easily fixed. if an random HA needs more ammo he can just drop it. and because of way his class is designed that ammo will be accessible to everyone. The only draw back i see with it is that it enables him to rocket spam more easily. Could be that resuppling rockets "burn" the ammo crate quicker.

Edit: screwed up something.

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by WildVS

Fellas

Ever heard of paralysis by analysis?

Yup, however I really have nothing better to do. Germany still hasn't scored and isn't trying hard so the match is getting pretty boring. This debate serves nothing more then to keep ourselves entertained tbh There's nothing wrong with that.

Devs have probably already or will consider all the things we mentioned here and much more. So I trust they will make the best decision and we be able to witness that when the beta starts.

[Dagron]

True, we have been going in circles for a while, but it is kind of entertaining... xD