Malorn's Stats Thread Reborn

[Flaropri]

Originally Posted by Revanmug

You kinda prove his point. You might be doing your job but other people still have to do the killing and if they fail at killing, your job will be harder.

Depending on the person's job, a higher k/d might be more important comparing to another's people job. As long as any other stats are shown so you can judge yourself, Why would that wrong? Just make sure no stats look more important than the others since changing kdr for a score or something is nothing more than changing the bad to another place.

My point was that killing isn't important for individual stats pending type of play, not that killing isn't important at all. The idea that all players need to individually have high K/D is wrong in TF2 and not just for the Medic (who needs high A/D). In fact, for some roles, if you focus too much on getting kills you aren't doing your job. An Engineer that goes off to get kills without protecting his nest risks losing it and putting the nest in an overly aggressive spot could leave the objectives undefended (some Engineer builds are good for aggression though, mini-SG and all, but you generally want to use that only when defense is already covered).

I've been saying from the beginning that more stats is best stats, just to make them equal in importance/prominence, so we're on the same page here. The thing is, there is a difference between individual kills and team kills, and I dislike the implication that K/D is particularly important for everybody on a team. I was merely responding to that on the individual basis. Killing is important, but not on an individual basis, especially for PS2, which has more support/logistics to take care of than most FPS games, including TF2.


To sum the thread:
And that's the point of Malorn's concerns. People who go after the objectives, who play a support role, etc. aren't going to generally have particularly high K/D, because it isn't their focus many is the time I've run in as a scout, knowing I would die horribly, just to tag the Intel or to keep the cart from rolling back. That isn't to say that the rest of their team isn't out murdering people in the most brutal of fashions, but if Kills are over-hyped and made overly important some people will get frustrated with being "forced" to play a support role or "forced" to capture points or "forced" to baby-sit the parked Gal (whether by necessity or by orders from guild-mates) and ending up with "lower stats" or whatever. This in turn might lead to less and less people willing to perform those important tasks. It's already a bitch to try and get medics in TF2 random servers as it is (and yes, I will often switch to Medic when it's needed).

In essence, if a given stat is glorified for whatever reason, then the concern is that people will forgo important roles in order to cater to that stat. (This is also why I'm concerned about Score-whoring as well, Tribes Ascend has some good examples of how that can fail as well, as the video mentioned.)

Ostensibly, it shouldn't matter, but many people get affected by that sort of thing. Absolutely don't remove stats, I dislike that sort of approach, but remove emphasis by providing more stats on the same screens, etc.

[OnexBigxHebrew]

Originally Posted by Cow God

CoD and BF3 are unfortunately advancing that mentality faster then the objective-focused players can regress it. =\

And unfortunately people like you advance the BF3/CoD grouping mentaility.

Sorry to blow a massive hole in your logic, but BF3 places you at the top of the list by points, regardless of your K/D. The fact that K/D is displayed next to this score actually downplays its importance. A player with 5456 points (From support, assist, kills, vehicle support, etc) and a 12-23 K/D will place well ahead of a person who is 14-1 with an 1867 score. It's common knowledge that people are ridiculed for having a ton of kills and low score. The MVP medal is given based on total scores, and let me tell you, the easiest ways to score points in BF3 are not killing.

I think all of this hate is perptuated by word-of-mouth from people who just look at the fact that CoD and BF3 are both set in modern times and are therefore the same thing.

Gameplay in these two games is vastly different.

[Revanmug]

Originally Posted by Flaropri

Big wall of text that I embraced

Pretty much agree

It's more that I just don't understand why some people have this mentality of : High kdr = killwhore no teamwork. Where is the logic in there? Hell, if you are in squad with a few medic (and death don't count if you get rez), you kdr is probably going to be alot higher. wait, better kdr if teamworking with people mmmm...

If I'm a HA or LA or a sniper and I'm not killing enemy and making sure things are clear near the objectif for my squad, what the hell am I doing? If I die, that squad just lost a man, making their stand or attack harder and so on so forth. That could be say of any class though meaning that death is usually bad.

Are there going to be people that just care about kdr? Oh certainly but to be fair, we'll probably have some medic/engineer that are never going to use their assault rifle and simply go around with their tool and use that as an excuse. Is that wrong? Not exactly but depending how powerful those rifle are, defending yourself to keep you alive THEN repairing/healing might make you more useful for the team. Dead people are useless.

This is a sandbox game. I feel like things like that should just be left to the player to determine with, again, a complete neutral stats page. More stats the better.

[CorvicM]

Originally Posted by bmfof

To sum up, stats aren't your problem, people are. And it doesn't matter what kinds or number of mechanics you attach (or detach) to a game, they will remain stupid until the end of time. I also have the whole of human history to back me up on that claim, unlike you.

Uh, you just kinda proved the reason why we should be allowed to hide our stats, people like you.

You judge people and start insulting them as fast as you can, it hurts the player/user and is just proving your an ass. That and the "just ignore them" practice doesn't really work as eventually it wears a person down and they stop playing, even when they ignore it (common fact from Psychology).

Personally i have horrible K/D cause most of the time i care more about objectives than kills, but not everyone thats why they said have it be a choice on showing others your stats.

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by CorvicM

Uh, you just kinda proved the reason why we should be allowed to hide our stats, people like you.

You judge people and start insulting them as fast as you can, it hurts the player/user and is just proving your an ass. That and the "just ignore them" practice doesn't really work as eventually it wears a person down and they stop playing, even when they ignore it (common fact from Psychology).

Personally i have horrible K/D cause most of the time i care more about objectives than kills, but not everyone thats why they said have it be a choice on showing others your stats.

"I'm embarassed by my K/D so I should have the right to hide it."

That is your reasoning?

[CorvicM]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

"I'm embarassed by my K/D so I should have the right to hide it."

That is your reasoning?

and your reasoning not to is to gloat that you have a higher K/D?
I believe we are at an impass.

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by CorvicM

and your reasoning not to is to gloat that you have a higher K/D?
I believe we are at an impass.

I'm not gloating. I had a horrible K/D in PS as well. Such is the life of an infil.

But not having the balls to take criticism for a low K/D isn't really a good reason to have the right to hide it.

[CorvicM]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

I'm not gloating. I had a horrible K/D in PS as well. Such is the life of an infil.

But not having the balls to take criticism for a low K/D isn't really a good reason to have the right to hide it.

so you're calling me a pussy just cause i don't want some no-name saying shit to me when im having a good time and ruin my day. huh seems legit btw why the hell would you even be checking my stats in the first place. so i see no reason not to be able to hide stats from other players. Hell when i first started to play Blacklight: Retribution I was put down constantly because i wasn't a smurf account.

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by CorvicM

so you're calling me a pussy just cause i don't want some no-name saying shit to me when im having a good time and ruin my day. huh seems legit btw why the hell would you even be checking my stats in the first place. so i see no reason not to be able to hide stats from other players. Hell when i first started to play Blacklight: Retribution I was put down constantly because i wasn't a smurf account.

Talk about being defensive...

Originally Posted by CorvicM

btw why the hell would you even be checking my stats in the first place.

Maybe because you may have killed me? Why do you care?

Originally Posted by CorvicM

you're calling me a pussy just cause i don't want some no-name saying shit to me when im having a good time and ruin my day

Your attitude does that for you. It's just a game, so relax.

[ArmedZealot]

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

So you calling CorvicM a pussy for being defensive?

Heheh. I couldnt resist.

He called himself that lol. Maybe he just wishes he could be a big bad kid with a high K/D on the inside, seems to me like he is compensating for something.

[CorvicM]

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

He called himself that lol. Maybe he just wishes he could be a big bad kid with a high K/D on the inside, seems to me like he is compensating for something.

see strait to the insulting. but not to flame or derail I have seen (personally) no reason why we should not be able to hide our stats other than cause you want to see them but they are OUR stats we can do with them as we please.

[SpcFarlen]

I dont see why KDR is a bad stat to have. Some classes/roles will only be getting kills such as the MAX. They cant hack nodes, give supplies or do anything besides be mobile turrets and lay down fire. And also with MAXs come their restrictions on being able to be in transports. If im driving/piloting and only have two slots for MAX units, i want to make sure i have the best i can carry. Just like if i had a medic in my squad. Id want someone who can get the job effectively.

Vehicles have the same issue. Tanks dont give out a buff. Assault aircraft cant hand out care packages (though Gal dropping supplies would be amazing... make it happen SOE). The only stat they have KDR to really prove their worth or gauge their performance.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Well, when you're playing MAX, your revives/repairs and captures shouldn't show up on that page.

If you're playing medic, your rezzes and damage healed should be prominent (maybe 'first' stats) with more "global" stats in their own section. Like captures and assists and number of friendlies spawned from your gal and metres flown/run. For this class, Kills would be in this category because it's not the primary role of the medic.

If you're playing HA, or infil with a big sniper rifle, then probably kills should be the primary stat.

But I'd like to choose which stats I see most often customised by class.

[Baneblade]

The only stat I care about is the respect I earn from enemies and friendlies alike for the accomplishments of War Machine. Stat whores can fuck off, my bumper gets more useful kills than they do.

[Revanmug]

Originally Posted by CorvicM

so you're calling me a pussy just cause i don't want some no-name saying shit to me when im having a good time and ruin my day. huh seems legit btw why the hell would you even be checking my stats in the first place. so i see no reason not to be able to hide stats from other players. Hell when i first started to play Blacklight: Retribution I was put down constantly because i wasn't a smurf account.

While I don't care if someone is hiding his stats, I am surprise how a random dude can scrap you day so fast when you could simply ignore him or even troll him back. What bothers me is...

How in hell are you surviving on the internet right now? Fool don't need them stats to make fun of others.

I'm sorry but a thicker skin might be require when on the internet and mostly when playing pvp games. Believe me, you'll need it if you don't want "no-name saying shit to you."