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View Poll Results: What class should carry ammo packs?
LA (as currently implemented) 60 21.90%
HA 69 25.18%
Engineer 115 41.97%
Medic 19 6.93%
Infiltrator 2 0.73%
MAX 9 3.28%
Voters: 274. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-06-09, 03:28 PM   [Ignore Me] #121
BigBossMonkey
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Ammo should only be available in field from a few sources:


Certain bases/outposts should have ammo dispensing stations outside, available to those who own the facility. These stations would only refill ammo and have a limited amount available, which would decrease as its being used. Show it as some sort of light, or bar, or whatever. These should be able to be hacked by attacking forces to rearm and deprive the defenders of it. These could be refilled by engineers reparing it.

Classes that provide ammo should be reduced to ONLY the Engineer (and perhaps MAX, I will explain shortly). The problem with ammo boxes as they are right now, there is no way to stop a force from rearming, which takes out valid tactics for the other teams. To bypass this I suggest having Engineers place down a portable short duration supply terminal (would have 30-50 uses). This could be used to customize your current class, and resupply. You can not use it to get more grenades or other consumables that cost resources (allowing a force to stay somewhere indefinitely), just ammo and change out weapons.

The goal of these two ideas would be to allow for players to be able to deprive the enemy of resupply if used incorrectly.

As for the idea with MAXes, it would be one of their special abilities and allow a MAX to open up slots on his armor and allow nearby friendlies to grab additional ammo from him. This ammo supply would require an engineer to regenerate over time (blah blah blah, nanites). The MAX himself would not be able to get ammo from it, that way a single MAX wouldnt' effectively have double or triple his normal ammo supply. While in ADM (ammo dispenser mode) the MAX would move 30% slower.


My two cents on the matter.

Last edited by BigBossMonkey; 2012-06-09 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 2012-06-09, 03:36 PM   [Ignore Me] #122
atone
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Hypevosa View Post
It's better than him having to always keep running back to get ammo for just himself?

Think of it this way - he can play delivery boy and forward assault for anyone on the front lines and keep his own rather pissy guns constantly stocked, rather than having to be STATIONARY as he waits for someone to spawn ammo so he can get it, run out, waste it, and come back for more.

This is the only class that makes alot of sense to have the ammo dispensing, because it's the one whose gameplay allows them to not always be hovering around their own squad. As the unit that serves best when it abuses its mobility, it is the one that needs ammo and is also the best ammo dispenser.
Yeah, he needs to wait for an ammo drop but with either method somebody is going to have to wait. With HA method, the LA has the freedom to choose when to resupply, not be "forced" to relocate.
guess its more of pros vs cons. Yes he's gonna need ammo eventually, we all do. but HA supplying it just benefits more people.
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Old 2012-06-09, 03:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #123
Dagron
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by atone View Post
So far C4 has been accessible to most/all classes
Sry, i wasn't aware of that... then i guess that suggestion in specific is no good, but i think giving LAs a choice between front line harassment or behind the line support is still a good option, we just need to find something for them to have to choose between that or ammo drop (not the jump pack!).



Originally Posted by atone View Post
Yeah, he needs to wait for an ammo drop but with either method somebody is going to have to wait. With HA method, the LA has the freedom to choose when to resupply, not be "forced" to relocate.
guess its more of pros vs cons. Yes he's gonna need ammo eventually, we all do. but HA supplying it just benefits more people.
To me HA is still the worst choice, having them resupply themselves is really making ammo drops moot... it's like having infinite ammo (or just a larger reserve).

Last edited by Dagron; 2012-06-09 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 2012-06-09, 03:39 PM   [Ignore Me] #124
atone
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by WildVS View Post
Only wish there was a hurricane passing by while I was outside taking a piss. It would befitting of this thread.
hey, I'm entertained
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Old 2012-06-09, 03:48 PM   [Ignore Me] #125
Sifer2
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Poll is missing the everyone option lol. It should be something you can choose to carry instead of grenades,medkits, etc.
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Old 2012-06-09, 03:48 PM   [Ignore Me] #126
atone
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Dagron View Post
To me HA is still the worst choice, having them resupply themselves is really making ammo drops moot... it's like having infinite ammo (or just a larger reserve).
other than it also benefits everyone around them, i can see your point.
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Old 2012-06-09, 03:51 PM   [Ignore Me] #127
Rexdezi
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Dagron View Post
To me HA is still the worst choice, having them resupply themselves is really making ammo drops moot... it's like having infinite ammo (or just a larger reserve).
not if you make the ammo drops like grenades... you have to pay resources for them and you can only take either 1 or 2 with you.
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Old 2012-06-09, 03:52 PM   [Ignore Me] #128
Dagron
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Sifer2 View Post
Poll is missing the everyone option lol. It should be something you can choose to carry instead of grenades,medkits, etc.
Mmm, that's intriguing... Making it an option between that or grenade will make not many people pick ammo, so it would get chosen mostly by those of us who want to stay in some type of support role.
Sounds like a reasonable compromise.


Originally Posted by atone View Post
other than it also benefits everyone around them, i can see your point.
Yeah, but everyone around them will be mostly other HAs, so it's even worse.



Originally Posted by Rexdezi View Post
not if you make the ammo drops like grenades... you have to pay resources for them and you can only take either 1 or 2 with you.
In that case it would be the same as just a larger ammo reserve.
(It's there in my post, i just didn't think about making it cost anything, but that doesn't change the point.)

Last edited by Dagron; 2012-06-09 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 2012-06-09, 03:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #129
atone
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


did i miss the point where a dev chimes in and laughs at us cause they been through all this before?
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Old 2012-06-09, 03:58 PM   [Ignore Me] #130
Dagron
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by atone View Post
did i miss the point where a dev chimes in and laughs at us cause they been through all this before?
I bet they're just lurking and loling, no reason to stop us from entertaining them.
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Old 2012-06-09, 04:01 PM   [Ignore Me] #131
atone
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Dagron View Post
I bet they're just lurking and loling, no reason to stop us from entertaining them.
Ok, what about a leadership cert that drops an ammo crate FROM ORBIT son!
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Old 2012-06-09, 04:36 PM   [Ignore Me] #132
Grognard
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Personally, when it comes to ammo, a large segment of the population will be... how shall I say... selfish.

In order to "cause" (ie force) the concept ammo dispensing to be anything but a subject of contention, it should be on a class that has, generally, less a reliance on ammo as its class' theme. It should go to a class, that ussually attracts a type of player, or someone in the mindframe to... be a support class. This way, the ammo will actually be "supplied", instead of greedily keep to themselves.

This leaves out:
MAX - class focus is ammo dependant.
HA - class focus is ammo dependant.
LA - class focus is ammo dependant.

So, candidates are:
INF - class focus is arguably non-ammo dependant, but the focus is often tactically lonewolf, so not a good choice.
MED - class focus is non-ammo dependant, but obviously as healers, they are already a huge target for focus fire. Giving them ammo resupply capability seems over the top, not to mention antithetical. Again, not a good choice.

This leaves my pick: Engineer.

1. Class focus is non-ammo dependant.
2. Support minded players are attracted to this class.
3. Resupply, and repair are not antithetical, rather complimentary.
4. They repair more than just vehicles, so should be interfaced with infantry also.
5. Nanites are already part of their tools, and are easily converted to ammo, too.

We can argue whether to have, or not have, player dispensed ammo at all, in another thread. However, for this thread, given that the mechanism is actually already in the game, and that the developers themselves already said they will likely move it to another class... That is the paradigm I am operating under here.
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Old 2012-06-09, 04:38 PM   [Ignore Me] #133
Electrofreak
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
Personally, when it comes to ammo, a large segment of the population will be... how shall I say... selfish.

In order to "cause" (ie force) the concept ammo dispensing to be anything but a subject of contention, it should be on a class that has, generally, less a reliance on ammo as its class' theme. It should go to a class, that ussually attracts a type of player, or someone in the mindframe to... be a support class. This way, the ammo will actually be "supplied", instead of greedily keep to themselves.

This leaves out:
MAX - class focus is ammo dependant.
HA - class focus is ammo dependant.
LA - class focus is ammo dependant.

So, candidates are:
INF - class focus is arguably non-ammo dependant, but the focus is often tactically lonewolf, so not a good choice.
MED - class focus is non-ammo dependant, but obviously as healers, they are already a huge target for focus fire. Giving them ammo resupply capability seems over the top, not to mention antithetical. Again, not a good choice.

This leaves my pick: Engineer.

1. Class focus is non-ammo dependant.
2. Support minded players are attracted to this class.
3. Resupply, and repair are not antithetical, rather complimentary.
4. They repair more than just vehicles, so should be interfaced with infantry also.
5. Nanites are already part of their tools, and are easily converted to ammo, too.

We can argue whether to have, or not have, player dispensed ammo at all, in another thread. However, for this thread, given that the mechanism is actually already in the game, and that the developers themselves already said they will likely move it to another class... That is the paradigm I am operating under here.
Someone else actually employing logic here... thank you sir!

The majority of the arguments to have it on LA are because they apparently don't have a well defined role (aside from exterior combat). I think the counter-argument for this would be to better define the role of LA with other skills and abilities.

The majority of the arguments to have it on HA are because HA need a lot of ammo, which makes little sense as was pointed out; it'll only encourage hoarding.

The majority of the arguments to have it on MED is because the other options weren't well-liked and the fact that MED is routinely in the thick of the battle where ammunition is being expended.

It seems pretty obvious that these are not great arguments, at least to me. The only argument against ENG having it seem to be that ENG have enough to do... but the reality is that most deployables are placed before, after, or during a lull in battle. During battle, like MED, Eng are fighting and working to support those that need assistance. The screenshots Neurotoxin have shown us show that ENG have an unlockable deployable armament supply terminal which likely will dispense ammunition.

Thus my argument is to do away with ammo boxes entirely. ENG already has a solution that doesn't require people to be throwing crates of ammo everywhere, and should encourage ammo conservation when one of those terminals isn't nearby.
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Last edited by Electrofreak; 2012-06-09 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 2012-06-09, 04:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #134
IMMentat
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


Ok so lets start with the assumption that the engineer station will act like a mobile resupply terminal (ammo and deployables yes, class change no).

Lets pretend that the LA keep the ammo pack. But limit it to 1-2 uses only before needing resupply. It is easy enough to tweak light assault spare ammo capacity to negate so called "unlimited ammo" fears.
Let them restock ammo packs only at an engy/equipment teminal, so encourage them to stay near to faction friends.

How does that sound?


IMO a restricted use ammo packs could be one of several viable utility options for LA.
Maybe provide a targeting beam/waypoint/beacon to maintain a spot for platoon member/aircraft (show the outline of a single target for as long as the LA has them under the non damaging #beam#). It would help friendly ambushes and alert the driver but make the LA an obvious target.
A single use jump-pad/rope-ladder/zipline/teleport to allow one (non-max) friendly to get onto a low wall/roof is another option (maybe 1/3 the height of the basic jump-jet) sort of a breaching tactic. Think about it before flaming, properly balanced (3-5 seconds deploy time, single use) it could work.

LA have fantastic manueverability, but so far, I have seen little to let them use that in a supportive way for their faction/team (OFC spotting could be a huge advantage but we are yet to see it in a natural PS2 environment).

Last edited by IMMentat; 2012-06-09 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 2012-06-09, 04:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #135
Rexdezi
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Re: What class should carry ammo packs?


maybe one way to stop hoarding is to make it so that you cannot pick up your own ammo, you can only give it to others. Slightly unrealistic maybe, but so is a flying tank...

At the worst, it would make lone wolves into bi wolves... or dual wolves... idk... where 2 players work together, supplying one another. which is no bad thing right? its not ideal, but not as bad as lone wolf

oh and if you give it to the infiltrator he WILL use it on himself. Sniping, run out of ammo, drop some more, yay more ammo.

oh and I still support having only 1 or 2 ammo drops and they cost resources like grenades
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