Be Constructive when referencing PlanetSide 1

[Hamma]

Another thing you guys need to remember is railing on PlanetSide 1 constantly isn't going to all of a sudden reveal some massive crazy idea the PlanetSide 2 developers don't already know about. I've had the pleasure of talking to many developers of the game at length including Smed himself. Heck Malorn works on the team now and many of us read his breakdown on PlanetSide 1. There are TONS of folks working on this team that either worked on, or played PlanetSide 1 extensively.

They are all well aware of what PlanetSide 1 offered and the systems it contained. What is being brought up is not a magical solution that all of a sudden reveals itself.

I'm not asking everyone to forget the game but you have to realize that the game is not forgotten. SOE knows what was in the game and what will work in the new game. If you do think something from PS1 will work in it by all means post it, in a constructive way.

[Mox]

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

Then you have an alternative definition of fanboy. To take an active part in a community devoted to a certain "thing" does not a fan(boy) make. You have to be enthusiasticly devoted to something in order to be a fan(boy). As we all know, when you start adding feelings into the mix that's when one starts becoming irrational and unconstructive.

Following my definition you are even the bigger fanboy than me or dragonskin. But Hamma still rules us all! (over 30k of comments)

However, for me being a fan is nothing negative. Strong commitment to a thing is positive. But to avoid further confusion and excitement i changed the term "fanboy" into "fan" which should foster less negative feelings.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by Mox

Following my definition you are even the bigger fanboy than me or dragonskin. But Hamma still rules us all! (over 30k of comments)

However, for me being a fan is nothing negative. Strong commitment to a thing is positive. But to avoid further confusion and excitement i changed the term "fanboy" into "fan" which should foster less negative feelings.

Uh aye, no one here can beat him on the almighty post count.

Aye, by your definition being a fan(boy) isn't something that should be viewed as negative. Of course the definition, AFAIK, of fan is still that of someone who is enthusiastically devoted to something, well it might vary with either word but still. Of course being enthusiastic can mean anything really.
I'm afraid that the confusion might remain, although I now know what you mean.

[MrBloodworth]

A fan enjoys a game and can talk objectively, if not slightly biased. Vanu suck.

A Fanboy hears no wrongs, and sees no flaw in anything.

A hater comes to a forums with no other reason than to talk trash. Normally about a game they once enjoyed.

[Crator]

Originally Posted by Hamma

I'm not asking everyone to forget the game but you have to realize that the game is not forgotten. SOE knows what was in the game and what will work in the new game. If you do think something from PS1 will work in it by all means post it, in a constructive way.

It's the way you said it then that's offensive to some of the forum community. The thread title itself suggests, "Everyone, please forget PS1"...

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

A fan enjoys a game and can talk objectively, if not slightly biased. Vanu suck.

A Fanboy hears no wrongs, and sees no flaw in anything.

A hater comes to a forums with no other reason than to talk trash. Normally about a game they once enjoyed.

Yea, those are pretty much how I understand the terms.

Troll is now anyones guess. The term gets thrown around so much that its lost its meaning.

[SGTHACK]

This is a mute discussion, since there is a room for PS1. For myself, I pass on threads started comparing the two games.

[Hamma]

Fine I'll rename the thread then.

[RodenyC]

Originally Posted by CraazyCanuck

With a signature like that, why are you even on a PS2 forum? If you hate the game that much, move on to something else and save yourself the aggravation. Life is too short.

On that same note, could we just have this thread locked and move on?

Sorry thought this was a Planetside forum.Not a only Planetside 2 forum.And believe me I never would had thought that would be my signature as much as I was excited about PS2.As much as I brag to my clan mates,friends,and any gamer I know about PS2 and how it was gonna be a great game.Even letting friends use some of my old accounts so they can try out PS1 and see what PS2 would be like.And after what has happened with PS2 all I hear from people is when is PS1 going F2P? As well I have moved on.The only thing I am waiting for is PS1 F2P and while I am waiting I am playing other games that satisfy my need.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Hamma

False.



If you have a good case, nobody can argue that its a dead feature.

Yet they do...


Hamma, as long as we're at it, can we put a ban on "this is a new game"-line of argumentation as well? Because that's even more stupid. Probably good to have a moratorium on "the new audience"-line of argumentation as well if it isn't backed up with statistics of in game players.

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Hamma

Fine I'll rename the thread then.

Im disappointed.

We need to stop using PS1 as a constant reference point.
Constructive or not.

If you cant explain a problem without referencing PS1 then you probably dont understand the problem enough to waste our time talking about it.

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by SGTHACK

This is a mute discussion, since there is a room for PS1. For myself, I pass on threads started comparing the two games.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/moot

1
: a deliberative assembly primarily for the administration of justice; especially : one held by the freemen of an Anglo-Saxon community
2
obsolete : argument, discussion

Moot.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by Figment

Yet they do...


Hamma, as long as we're at it, can we put a ban on "this is a new game"-line of argumentation as well? Because that's even more stupid. Probably good to have a moratorium on "the new audience"-line of argumentation as well if it isn't backed up with statistics of in game players.

It's a new game because it's Planetside 2. New mechanics, redesigned continents, new weapons, new class system. It's the Planetside IP in a new engine with new things.


And it is a new audience... unless Smedley is lying.

"GamesBeat: How many of the people in your player base came from the original PlanetSide, do you think, and how many are brand new to Sony Online?

Smedley: I would say it’s maybe 10 percent people who played the original. Another 20 percent have played our games before. The rest are new — 70 percent of the people coming in are new to our business"


Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2012/12/12/so...u00JRl2Mr52.99

So he says roughly 70% of the people coming to Planetside 2 are new. 20% have played SOE games in general and 10% are PS1 vets.

90% of Planetside 2 population is new to Planetside. That's a new audience. Even if 30% played PS1 before.. that's 70% new audience. That's still a new audience.

[Crator]

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

And it is a new audience... unless Smedley is lying.

Agreed, I believe it is a new audience (majority of players). They did well using various advertisements. The real question then becomes, how is player retention? Does the new audience's view jive with the previous fan base from the older game? Things such as this should help the developer to move forward to a more prosperous future with the IP.

[Figment]

Dragonskin, it's an example of how people fail to use it to argument anything constructively in relation to what system needs to be used. Nobody argues it's a new game, however, pople are quick to make really presumptious remarks. People simply fail to use the population argument properly, because they simply state there are new people. But most people that mention it instantly start drawing conclusions (that happen to support their side of the argument as some sort of statistical fact that makes any opposition to it moot).

Based on what? Wishful thinking?


1. New game doesn't mean everything NEEDS to be different. The best combination of systems must be used. PS2 being a "new game" isn't an argument to NOT use a PS1 system. Yet this is frequently used as such.

If we look at the CoD series, each new game uses almost the exact same rules and mechanics. The same can be said for the early C&C games and spin-off games like Dune2000, or the first games in the Commandoes series. So no, a new game does NOT mean new mechanics.

2. When a new audience is mentioned, it is usualy followed by a dozen or so random assumptions about "new playerbase WANTING different things". Patently false statement that isn't backed up by any surveys and is based entirely on assumptions. And considering the huge drop in PS2 playerbase, one cannot argue the current systems that were "designed for what the new playerbase wants" actually worked to achieve that. Without even contesting that this is what they wanted. And EVEN IF it would be what they wanted ahead of time, that doesn't mean it's what they actually want or the game needs.

The "new playerbase" is used completely wrong in argumentation and is never backed up by any evidence. In contrast, if you bring up evidence of the contrary with actual surveys, your surveys are always questioned and assumed non-representative. Not having surveys to reference at all however, is considered "fact" by these same people.

Another thing is that people assume that x% is new to the game means that those x% want something entirely different from PS1 players and that they have completely different demands and perspectives. Which I'd like to see you or Smedley back up such statements with facts. In fact, I'd say that even the PS1 crowd is diverse.




But just because they're new, doesn't mean they have a good idea of what they need or want, or that they wouldn't want PS1 mechanics or systems. Especially not since this is a new gaming experience to them. I'm even doubtful if they have expectations on subsystems of the game prior to entering the game, beyond having been promised it will have a massive scale.