The Air game is 20 times better post GU11

[CrankyTRex]

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

This is an inaccurate statement. When this game was released the effective range for bursters was less than 100 meters.

Bursters have never been the only AA option. The AA turrets especially could be effective when people manned them.

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Nothing except this:

So yeah, which is it?
Should I fail at flying an AA ESF, which by your own admission is harder than any form of ground Vehicle, or should I invest in a Dedicated GROUND TO AIR FLAK PLATFORM specifically for taking down Aircraft?

Well personally I'd tell you to invest in getting better at flying because it would make you more versatile, but again if you want to talk about Mad Libs, you can plug almost anything into that situation. You'd weigh the pros and cons just like any other force composition.

[Wahooo]

Originally Posted by snafus

Strange you say how neutered it was as my Outfit was doing wonderfully farming all the air with the surprise burster nest we would place around the map. And I know through personal experience that certain ARA outfits were eating air alive with their nasty little burster nest. Again the main issue was knowledge and availability, sadly most of the players at launch lacked both.

This argument was used a ton by different people back at release at how bursters are great because you could set up ambush places and wreck air.

BUT...

this proves nothing because it has nothing to due with using the burster as, i'm pretty sure everyone would agree its use, to protect ground forces.

At release there were big issues due to the range and damage. Basically as what sledge said wasn't that you couldn't HIT them, but any 1/2 decent ESF pilot wasn't in LOS or range for long enough to do significant damage.

Balance is coming, but it has to do with how much killing can an ESF do in a flyby? At release a bunch with lol pods.
How much damage can be done to that ESF in the flyby? at release? almost nothing.
They've added and added different types of AA, so nerfing the burster only makes sense but at the same time, the way it is right now really isn't very rewarding to play... or fun. And the skyguard is still the worst way to spend resources in the game.

[snafus]

Originally Posted by Wahooo

This argument was used a ton by different people back at release at how bursters are great because you could set up ambush places and wreck air.

BUT...

this proves nothing because it has nothing to due with using the burster as, i'm pretty sure everyone would agree its use, to protect ground forces.

At release there were big issues due to the range and damage. Basically as what sledge said wasn't that you couldn't HIT them, but any 1/2 decent ESF pilot wasn't in LOS or range for long enough to do significant damage.

Balance is coming, but it has to do with how much killing can an ESF do in a flyby? At release a bunch with lol pods.
How much damage can be done to that ESF in the flyby? at release? almost nothing.
They've added and added different types of AA, so nerfing the burster only makes sense but at the same time, the way it is right now really isn't very rewarding to play... or fun. And the skyguard is still the worst way to spend resources in the game.

We used it directly for that purpose. Your realize we would set up our nest directly over watching friendly forces or right in the middle of them. Having tasty ground targets was the best bait for aircraft. The burster cleaned house back then but it was hugely under utilized. We would always have to get on to "friendly" outfits and demand they pull AA to to help with security. And many of them flat out refused saying someone else will get it.

This is one of the direct causes to why air was able to do as it pleased. There was simply so many bad/ ignorant players that allowed it to farm unchecked. Again from personal experience there has always been certain outfits I could never farm freely because from day 1 they pulled bursters. And there has also been outfits that I actively looked for becuase they let me farm them.

Air was OP at launch, I doubt many will refute that. But AA was borderlone OP as well. As bursters could reach out beyond render range and do considerable damage to any air target before he could even see you. When people tell me how UP it was I just chuckle as I had plenty of memories of earning a insta poof here and there by simply flying by the wrong base. Stop blaming air for something that could of been stopped if players simply used the tools they had.

[Rbstr]

Half of this is that the lib was just so monstrously powerful with the Zephyr and Dalton.

It could stand off and annihilate things, absorb all the blows and just retreat. To take it down as it was AA had to deal tons of damage. So instead of really changing the Lib initially, they buffed the hell out of AA. Which led to the ESF being paper thin, even with comp armor.

Then stack the tank HP/resist buff (a good thing, I think) and the ESF does way less damage to tanks. And there's tons of people using AP now, so going low for a rear shot was borderline suicide. Besides just getting mulched at that altitude by AA.

It's much more fun to fly now than it was pre-patch.
Except against TR, because the Striker is everywhere...and the Vulcan is maybe the best vehicle-based AA now.

[maradine]

Originally Posted by Rbstr

Except against TR, because the Striker is everywhere...and the Vulcan is maybe the best vehicle-based AA now.

I wish I had a good answer for that one. It's one thing when you have to worry about the guys who are looking for you and carry the appropriate weapon. Its another thing entirely when you're a juicy opportunity target for the most effective secondary weapon of the most-used class.

I mean, it makes fighting TR substantially different from fighting NC, which is a good thing. I don't feel like there's an equivalent fear on the NC/VS side, though.

[omega four]

Originally Posted by maradine

I wish I had a good answer for that one. It's one thing when you have to worry about the guys who are looking for you and carry the appropriate weapon. Its another thing entirely when you're a juicy opportunity target for the most effective secondary weapon of the most-used class.

I mean, it makes fighting TR substantially different from fighting NC, which is a good thing. I don't feel like there's an equivalent fear on the NC/VS side, though.

When I play TR and am not flying a Mossy, I always position myself where I think enemy ESFs will retreat to. More often than not, the enemy ESFs are damaged and have used their flares. I lock on with my striker RPG and let the rockets do the rest.

I don't even have time to enjoy the resulting fireworks of the killed ESF as I'm too busy reloading my striker and locking on to another enemy ESF.

Times are great for the TR AA forces after GU11 IF you own a striker RPG.

[SolLeks]

Originally Posted by omega four

When I play TR and am not flying a Mossy, I always position myself where I think enemy ESFs will retreat to. More often than not, the enemy ESFs are damaged and have used their flares. I lock on with my striker RPG and let the rockets do the rest.

I don't even have time to enjoy the resulting fireworks of the killed ESF as I'm too busy reloading my striker and locking on to another enemy ESF.

Times are great for the TR AA forces after GU11 IF you own a striker RPG.

Not to nitpick, but RPG does not work in this instance. Rocket Propelled Grenades have no guidance systems, the Striker's Missiles (note, Missiles, not rockets) are guided there for it is a Striker Missile Launcher system, not RPG =).

Being a military ordinance collector, I can't let this go (sadly I have no live ordinance, that stuff is to expensive to own legally and I am not about to risk going to jail for 10 years just to have a live piece of ordinance illegally)

/nitpick

[maradine]

Why would you want to own live ordinance? Liability caselaw for firearms is bad enough.

[snafus]

Originally Posted by maradine

Why would you want to own live ordinance? Liability caselaw for firearms is bad enough.

Because it's fun to own things that go boom.

[maradine]

I can get that out of a Remy 870P without the NFA stamp. =D

[omega four]

No worries. I agree with you. What you said is absolutely correct for 2013 on Earth.

It's just that I'm going by what SOE has stated in PS2 lore. Perhaps in the future around Auraxis time, RPGs behave as missiles nowadays do.

Keep in mind that we're reviving dead people in the future on Auraxis as well....

Originally Posted by SolLeks

Not to nitpick, but RPG does not work in this instance. Rocket Propelled Grenades have no guidance systems, the Striker's Missiles (note, Missiles, not rockets) are guided there for it is a Striker Missile Launcher system, not RPG =).

Being a military ordinance collector, I can't let this go (sadly I have no live ordinance, that stuff is to expensive to own legally and I am not about to risk going to jail for 10 years just to have a live piece of ordinance illegally)

/nitpick

[maradine]

Take the tail fins and laser seeker off of a Paveway and you have a dumb 'ole Mk. 84. Who's to say they didn't bolt a guidance unit onto the front of a dumb grenade. Or something. I don't know man, all my shit glows and hisses when you shoot it.

[JohnnyRicardo]

I was rather skeptical about the burster nerf before GU11 came, but after playing for a while i really don't feel that air has become OP again. Liberators at max altitude might be a pain in the ass, but it's nothing gamebreaking to be honest.

In fact there is some juicy xp flying around for me and my buddy the striker these days. I guess some people imagine they can pull a scythe/reaver without flares and rule the battlefield. Well, nah.

[Chewy]

I wouldn't mind the nerf to much, if flak even worked right.

Past few days flak would fail to damage. The rounds would explode but no hit markers and no damage would be done. This isn't just for one person, it only starts for one person and soon everyone has useless flak. Skyguards, bursters, wall turrets, and rangers wouldn't do a damn thing.

[Whiteagle]

I finally remembered why I hate Airchavs SOO damn much, DVS' Airzergs...

The fucking NC can't do shit without a ScatMAX on the point and Breakers ROFLPODDING the shit out of everything...