Health/Shield/Jetpack Mechanics from GDC Videos

[Kran De Loy]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

The loadstar did not auto refill your ammo, it simply acted as a terminal.

Auto repair while stationary, and with in a tight range ( like the loadstar ) is fine. Its the moving/ammo/repair I take issue with.

I also really personally dislike that the Sundy seems to be able to do everything. I like the idea of having to make the tactical choice to filed various equipment.

This should really be another Vehicle, attaching all that, and possible amphibious ability as well, on a breach Vehicle seems silly.

Other then the ammo resupply on-the-move style , I like the mechanics of it. The heal rate should be somewhat slow, but still there to encourage people to keep that Sunder up and running and should be easy to adjust once Beta testing can flesh it out. Also a deployed mode should be necessary for the ammo resupply, imo. Preferably having it as a Sidegrade where maybe something like 1 or 2 infantry slots are taken up with the equipment needed to do the deploy/ammo supply.

[Erendil]

Originally Posted by Malorn

I watched that spot several times and I couldn't see a clear indication of a 3 shot volley, but did notice at least two distinct hits which knocked 5 bars out in very quick succession. Could be the animations for the tank shots (which were clearly not finished) made the triple shot difficult to see. Or maybe it was just two shots since the prowler does have a high rate of fire.

Where did you learn that the Prowler has a 3-shot volley sidegrade? Is that the TR version of the Vanguard's shield or just a cannon upgrade?

Seems ironic that the Prowler ends up being the Jackhammer of tanks too.


Also more interestingly was that Higby's tank regenerated immediately after taking damage. I also saw it reloading its ammo slowly also. The radius of that Sunderer must be quite high for its' ammo & repair functionality. I couldn't see the sunderer at all on the minimap so I couldn't clearly see just how close it was to him.

You can see the Prowler's 3-shell burst in action at 00:56 of the video release by The9. I thought it was confirmed by a Dev shortly afterwards that it was a cannon sidegrade option, but I can't seem to find the confirmation atm.

Interestingly enough, the Lightning also has a burst mode available. It's 6 shells tho, and is available with an AI cannon sidegrade (source: vehicle webcast).

Originally Posted by Malorn

Getting off topic, but I disagree. I think having a sunderer move with tanks creates more combined-arms potential. Clearly the sunderer becomes a high priority target.

Got the sunderer + tanks + a few AA configured lightnings protecting them. Seems like a nice solid ground force to push forward with.

It all depends on the rate at which the sunderer repairs. They could make it faster or with higher range if the sunderer is stationary or does some sort of deployment mechanic. Doesn't mean they can't heal/repair on the move. If it's too much they can tone down the repair rate.

Good questions for the AMAA this week...

Originally Posted by Malorn

Whether an engineer is behind the tank or driving next to it in a sunderer, it's still teamwork.

If it is the loss of teamwork you are concerned about the Sunderer isn't reducing teamwork by its repair benefit. All they did was combine it with the lodestar to act as vehicle support in addition to a transport. If anything the sunderer improves teamwork. It allows one transport to carry infantry so they can keep up with tanks, as well as supporting those tanks. So it encourages tanks to protect the sunderers and sunderers to stay near the tanks. Teamwork at its finest and a great example of the 1+1=3 design philosophy.

I'm afraid I'm with Knocky on this one. Being able to repair on-the-move is too powerful of a feature. It essentially eliminates any sort of vulnerability that IMO should be inherent with any sort of repair function and throws the risk/reward ratio way off balance.

Conventional repair work (reward) is balanced by the risk associated with having to get out of your vehicle in order to do repairs. The Bangbus repair function eliminates that risk so IMO another one should be implemented in its place. In PS1 it was the requirement that both the lodestar/silo/airpad and the damaged vehicle be stationary, making them vulnerable targets, and I think that risk should carry over to PS2.

Otherwise I fear that a Bangbus with its high armour and with active MBT's and possibly a full squad of deployed infantry around it would be too difficult of a target to eliminate if its able to move around and freely evade attacks.

Likewise, a MBT that can fire, take damage, and maneuver or even flee while getting repaired is again too much reward for almost no risk. I hate to bring up the "B" word, but one of the most broken things about BFR's was the rechargeable shield that allowed them to get back up to full strength from the safety of their cockpit even while they were in full retreat and under direct fire from enemy forces. So of course I'm extremely leery of any auto-repair function that has no apparent downside or risk involved, teamwork or not.

Plus I really like the idea of a Bangbus pulling up to a defensible position right behind the front lines and troops jumping out to set up a defense perimeter around it and defending it as needed. Sort of like a mini FOB and maybe even command post.

I hope that the Bangbus repair-on-the-move feature was just enabled for the GDC demo and is not something that will make it into the game.

[ringring]

Haven't medpacks been previously confirmed?

In which case why didn't higby use one? Hmmmm.

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by ringring

Haven't medpacks been previously confirmed?

In which case why didn't higby use one? Hmmmm.

I believe healing has been confirmed as a hold to use type healing thing, similar to how you would hold a button to hack, or hold to revive someone.

[Knocky]

Originally Posted by Erendil

I'm afraid I'm with Knocky on this one.

Never let fear drive you from the path of the righteous!

Repairing while moving is a terrible idea.

Making the Sundy the repair platform already speeds up repairing of our equipment. Loadies are too big a target to be flying along next to a tank column, not to mention it is a gigantic "LOOK OVER HERE" sign for the enemy. Loady repair waypoints needed to be set up too far away from the front lines due to AA fire and I am looking at you TR maxes, with your damned rapid fire flak.

Sundies will be able to get much closer without having to deal with flak that bursts overhead.

And sidegrades must not allow a Sundy to repair and be able to EMP. If it is able to clear mines as well as repair the tanks that found the mines in the first place, then mine fields will be completely useless.

Once again, EMP or Repair. Not both. If a tank column wants both then pull 2 Sundies.

Either way....jumping the gun. Higby might have had his tank set up with GM powers that kept his tank topped up

[sylphaen]

Good points.

The issue with repair on the move can easily be fixed by using a similar system to the PS1 lodestar: only allow auto-repairs to be active when the vehicle is static.

Of what you mention, the biggest problem is difference of range between AA vs. AV.

Range
AA --------------------> Lodie
AV ----->................. Lodie

In PS1, you could bypass the enemy forces and snipe lodestars with a skyguard.
In PS2, the weapons to hit the sundie will be weapons used to hit tanks.

I think it may cause balance issues by making it harder to snipe the sundies at repair spots. Then boosting AV range or power would also mean boosting AV vs. tanks. Balancing the sundies through health/armor might affect how viable they will be for other roles.

Interesting questions overall. I am curious and eager to see how PS2 systems will work and how different the dynamics will be vs. PS1.

[Skitrel]

I'm going to trust the devs on this. They'll likely have considered this repair on the move issue. I'd even go so far as to say that repairing on the move probably isn't planned and that it's just like the lodestar static autorepair. It probably just wasn't implemented yet by GDC.

[Kran De Loy]

The more I read the more I want to test it out in game first, not just because I want to play the game really badly, either.

I've been twisting my mustache almost bald over the last few weeks.

[Gogita]

Originally Posted by ringring

Haven't medpacks been previously confirmed?

In which case why didn't higby use one? Hmmmm.

As far as I know it is confirmed as in the latest Gametrailers interview, Higby mentioned that side-grades that affect gameply such as implants AND MEDPACKS will costs resources. So I would guess they're in.

[Malorn]

Originally Posted by Erendil

Being able to repair on-the-move is too powerful of a feature. It essentially eliminates any sort of vulnerability that IMO should be inherent with any sort of repair function and throws the risk/reward ratio way off balance.

Conventional repair work (reward) is balanced by the risk associated with having to get out of your vehicle in order to do repairs. The Bangbus repair function eliminates that risk so IMO another one should be implemented in its place. In PS1 it was the requirement that both the lodestar/silo/airpad and the damaged vehicle be stationary, making them vulnerable targets, and I think that risk should carry over to PS2.

Otherwise I fear that a Bangbus with its high armour and with active MBT's and possibly a full squad of deployed infantry around it would be too difficult of a target to eliminate if its able to move around and freely evade attacks.

Likewise, a MBT that can fire, take damage, and maneuver or even flee while getting repaired is again too much reward for almost no risk. I hate to bring up the "B" word, but one of the most broken things about BFR's was the rechargeable shield that allowed them to get back up to full strength from the safety of their cockpit even while they were in full retreat and under direct fire from enemy forces. So of course I'm extremely leery of any auto-repair function that has no apparent downside or risk involved, teamwork or not.

Plus I really like the idea of a Bangbus pulling up to a defensible position right behind the front lines and troops jumping out to set up a defense perimeter around it and defending it as needed. Sort of like a mini FOB and maybe even command post.

I hope that the Bangbus repair-on-the-move feature was just enabled for the GDC demo and is not something that will make it into the game.

These are all good points and a compelling argument; you have convinced me!

[Kran De Loy]

I love it when polite, well thought out discussion produces excellent/clear reasoning.

Mostly because I'm terrible at it.