Science vs Religion

[Warborn]

Being honest about how fucking stupid religions are is better than the disingenuous bullshit about respecting religious beliefs simply because they're religious beliefs.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Effective

If we're honest, the Quran is just as bad in terms of bronze age morality and using fear as a means of controlling the uneducated.

Easily.


Malorn, want to discuss Sumerian morality? Quite fun. It's partially what the bible is based on too.

[Vash02]

Originally Posted by Malorn

So many secular haters.

Anyone want to criticize the Quran while we're at it? Wouldn't want Muslims to feel left out.

Criticising old testament is criticising the holy books of Judaism, Christianity and Islam (also Mormonism plus all of the splinter groups).

[ItsTheSheppy]

Honestly, criticizing the bible is just easier for us westerners because we're exposed to a great deal more religious bullying from Christianity and its offshoots than from Islam. I'm sure if the opposite were true, we would be talking about how dumb the Quran and the Hadith are.

It's just easier to talk about what's more relevant to the speaker and audience.

[Malorn]

Meh.

[ItsTheSheppy]

Allah isn't in the pledge of allegiance, or on our money. Islamic groups are major lobbyists in our government. I'm not even aware of any mosques in the state I live in. There just isn't as much point in coming down on Islam as there is Christianity, because it's not as immediately practical to my day to day life.

Islam is a major problem in the world. It's the most populous religion on the planet and it's characterized, much like the other monotheisms, by the barbaric bronze-aged wackiness of all the other Abrahamic sects. It's a major factor of why the middle east is as much of a hellhole as it is, it breeds fanatical 'extremists' (a term I hate, because they are only 'extreme' in their adherence to what the religion actually says; it's not like they invented new stuff). Its attitude towards women is only slightly worse than the christian attitude, and in many cases enforced far more brutally.

Islam is a terrible religion. Muhammad was a fraud and a pedophile, if he ever actually existed, which he very well may not have; I've never seen compelling evidence that he did.

Does that satisfy? I could go on, but frankly, it doesn't matter. Because it's not the hadith being pressed into schools. Elementary students aren't being herded into gymnasiums to bow to mecca. Anti-abortion legislation isn't being funded and proposed by people waving a Quran. So as an American, it makes much more sense for me to attack the religion that is the primary source for bad things in the community in which I live.

Savvy?

[Malorn]

Meh.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Actually He is. Allah means "God" in Arabic.

It's both the abrahamic god. So what about hindus, atheists and pagans? It says god where there are gods or no gods for those people.

[ItsTheSheppy]

Originally Posted by Malorn

Actually He is. Allah means "The God" in Arabic.

There are a lot of gods, Malorn. Allah is not the same god as Yahweh. The 'god' that shows up so much in American language is not Allah; it's Yahweh. Woden is a god, too, but I don't think the pledge of allegiance is actually considering itself under the scrutiny of his ravens.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

There are a lot of gods, Malorn. Allah is not the same god as Yahweh. The 'god' that shows up so much in American language is not Allah; it's Yahweh. Woden is a god, too, but I don't think the pledge of allegiance is actually considering itself under the scrutiny of his ravens.

Though Thor is an American god!

[ItsTheSheppy]

Originally Posted by Figment

Though Thor is an American god!

I wish people at least worshiped cool gods. Gentle Jesus Meek and Mild and the weird faceless abrahamic gods are so boring. With Odin, you knew what you were getting, and it was fucking metal.

[Malorn]

Meh.

[Vash02]

Originally Posted by Malorn

The pledge and currency says "God" - it doesn't say "Christian God" or "Hebrew God" or "Hindu God (Vishnu)"

It means whatever god you want it to mean.

The United States independence, constitution, and bill of rights is founded upon the notion that we as humans have unalienable rights bestowed by our creator that no government can revoke.

That's why "In God We Trust" and "...under God..." appears in our currency and pledge. It is recognition of that fact that our rights come from a higher power and cannot be deprived.

It is not allegiance to a specific church and therefore is no breach of separation of church and state. It's a tribute to the founding principles of our country, which ignorant douchenozzles want to remove because of their own disdain for religion.

Choose the creator that suits you (or no creator at all) and move on to a real issue.

Do you really believe that load of complete and utter bullshit?

In a christian majority country, in a time when they are fearing a godless foe, when politicians were making christian statements daily, they decided to put "under god" and "in god we trust" into government for completley secular purposes?
You would really have to be the complete moron of the year to buy that.

[Malorn]

Meh.

[Quovatis]

Originally Posted by Malorn

The United States independence, constitution, and bill of rights is founded upon the notion that we as humans have unalienable rights bestowed by our creator that no government can revoke.

The constitution and the bill of rights are not founded on any of that crap. Only the declaration of independence has that phrase in there (once), and it was not in the original draft, mind you. Jefferson added it in at the request of others, and more than likely did not mean God. Most of the founding fathers were Deists, not Christian, including Jefferson. The USA is not a Christian nation, as reaffirmed in the treaty of Tripoli.

It was only during the cold war when the USA felt it had to play up the God thing as to not appear communist. Unfortunately, we've been stuck with it since.