SmedBlog: eSports Support

[Smed]

Originally Posted by super pretendo

I agree, but that's outside of the definition of an eSport. The problem here is that there will be too many different severs for anyone to give a shit about happenings. But perhaps it could work, with big awesome battles being covered.

Anything is better than sinking into the mediocrity of the rehashed modern FPS

you are thinking way too narrowly IMO. How many of you watch anything on Twitch TV? I do. I don't play Starcraft II but I watch the hell out of it. It is gradually taking on a lot of the time I used to spend watching TV (which isn't a ton anyways since I spend most of my free time gaming).

Do not think of an Esport the way they exist now. Planetside 2 will not fit into that square hole. However imagine a 500 person outfit fighting another 500 person outfit with cameras posted (time delayed) at a bunch of locations around the world and spectators able to follow people around the map at various locations. Imagine really good Casters following the best players on each side (maybe it's even all 3 empires fighting). Imagine a Season where we allow outfits to register (with requirements about size, etc) and be tracked during that season on a huge number of stats.

There are 2 ways of looking at Esports. One way is literally as pure competition. Another is looking at it as really well done Television. Instead of watching Survivor wouldn't you rather watch an hour long battle casted by really good shoutcasters and follow some of the best players in the game?

Esports is a lot more than simple arena matches. It's really becoming about watching other people game. Those of you that think this idea is stupid.. I was one of you. Now I'm hooked. Give it a try.. you will be too.

We have made the decision to innovate in a major way in Esports. It's not going to be the primary focus and driver of Planetside 2.. but we are adding technology that is already in the game and working that will allow you to cast directly from Planetside 2 without the need for external clients. At some point real soon you will even be able to follow your outfit mates from your ipad or iPhone as they pull of a Bin Laden style raid on some base and you'r going to be able to watch them. And guess what. Down the line (not at launch). If you have the right certs. You'll be able to do some drone action yourself.

Please keep an open mind. We aren't going to change what's at the heart of Planetside 2 to try and shove it into being an arena based shooter. That ain't happening.

[Inq]

Originally Posted by Smed

Esports is a lot more than simple arena matches. It's really becoming about watching other people game. Those of you that think this idea is stupid.. I was one of you. Now I'm hooked. Give it a try.. you will be too.

I did... and I still find it stupid.

Is that just me?

[Smed]

Originally Posted by Inq

I did... and I still find it stupid.

Is that just me?

it took me a long time. At some point it's like watching the olympics.

(oh god there is a joke I want to make right now that you can probably guess but I will be PC and not make it.)

it's cool to be able to watch amazing players while drinking.

[Grims]

I think that sounds great smed! People will cry about things no matter how good it is.

I think you guys are taking this game to great places, keep up the good work!

[Roy Awesome]

Originally Posted by Smed

We have made the decision to innovate in a major way in Esports. It's not going to be the primary focus and driver of Planetside 2.. but we are adding technology that is already in the game and working that will allow you to cast directly from Planetside 2 without the need for external clients. At some point real soon you will even be able to follow your outfit mates from your ipad or iPhone as they pull of a Bin Laden style raid on some base and you'r going to be able to watch them. And guess what. Down the line (not at launch). If you have the right certs. You'll be able to do some drone action yourself.

Please keep an open mind. We aren't going to change what's at the heart of Planetside 2 to try and shove it into being an arena based shooter. That ain't happening.

I don't think you will find many commentators who are willing to just start talking about the game. Honestly, I'd rather play the game rather than spectate and talk over the sounds of battle, hoping people tune in and watch me.

However, instead of supporting esports, having ingame streaming options, like being able to directly pipe game output to twitch...that would be cool. I would look more to the DayZ community rather than the Starcraft community. Starcraft works because it's 15-20 minutes of fast paced action, to where DayZ is more about the story about how to get to somewhere.

I'm more than happy to stream my gameplay with a bit of delay. I don't want to commentate fights because i'd rather be playing in them.

[Smed]

Originally Posted by Roy Awesome

I don't think you will find many commentators who are willing to just start talking about the game. Honestly, I'd rather play the game rather than spectate and talk over the sounds of battle, hoping people tune in and watch me.

However, instead of supporting esports, having ingame streaming options, like being able to directly pipe game output to twitch...that would be cool. I would look more to the DayZ community rather than the Starcraft community. Starcraft works because it's 15-20 minutes of fast paced action, to where DayZ is more about the story about how to get to somewhere.

I'm more than happy to stream my gameplay with a bit of delay. I don't want to commentate fights because i'd rather be playing in them.

I completely disagree about commentators willing to just start talking about a game. Take a look on Twitch TV at the huge assortment of games.

It's really simple - if it's interesting people will throw it up there and talk about it. If a lot of people play a game there will be good commentators that start casting. Most of them will come from the community itself. Day9 didn't start life with 1M viewers. He grew them over time because he's fun to watch.

Smed

[Roy Awesome]

Originally Posted by Smed

I completely disagree about commentators willing to just start talking about a game. Take a look on Twitch TV at the huge assortment of games.

It's really simple - if it's interesting people will throw it up there and talk about it. If a lot of people play a game there will be good commentators that start casting. Most of them will come from the community itself. Day9 didn't start life with 1M viewers. He grew them over time because he's fun to watch.

Smed

Sure, but Day9 has something...simpler... to talk about. He can sit down and analyze a matchup, comment about very specific decision points about how things come to a conclusion. Planetside 2 is just too big for an individual to actually make that large of a difference once the fight starts. Talking about a 1v1 matchup is much easier than a 100v100 battle over a plant. Fights tend to last very long, and have many different threads leading to a conclusion that following them for one or two people is simply impossible.

Secondly, People only tend to watch commentary during matches that actually mean something. I know there are counter examples to this (Purge's dota 2 pubcasts, day9 daily), but you don't see people like MrBitter and others casting unless they have an event they are doing. What about PS2 would entice those kind of audiences (and therefore the best casters) to watch?

I'm not saying that esports isn't a great path. I would immensely prefer for you guys to support the Destiny's and SingSings of Planetside 2 rather than the Day9s and Huskys...The players that play the game and stream themselves playing. They don't have someone filling space and talking about tactics and strategy, they carry the show based on their own personality and skill in a game.

[Smed]

Originally Posted by Roy Awesome

Sure, but Day9 has something...permanent... to talk about. He can sit down and analyze a matchup, comment about very specific decision points about how things come to a conclusion. Planetside 2 is just too big for an individual to actually make that large of a difference once the fight starts. Talking about a 1v1 matchup is much easier than a 100v100 battle over a plant.

Secondly, People only tend to watch commentary during matches that actually mean something. I know there are counter examples to this (Purge's dota 2 pubcasts, day9 daily), but you don't see people like MrBitter and others casting unless they have an event they are doing. What about PS2 would entice those kind of audiences (and therefore the best casters) to watch?

I'm not saying that esports isn't a great path. I would immensely prefer for you guys to support the Destiny's and SingSings of Planetside 2 rather than the Day9s and Huskys...The players that play the game and stream themselves playing. They don't have someone filling space and talking about tactics and strategy, they carry the show based on their own personality and skill in a game.

That's true for guys like Day9. My point is if the community gets large enough someone will likely come from within the community itself and throw up a weekly or a nightly cast where they just play the game and say interesting or funny stuff while doing it. Slowly they build an audience.

I've been watching stuff like Day Z as well. All that is completely random.. but there are some pretty decent commentators.

We're going to find out if I'm right soon enough. The tech is nearly done and when we pop the NDA we'll allow people to stream

[RoninOni]

Originally Posted by Smed

We're going to find out if I'm right soon enough. The tech is nearly done and when we pop the NDA we'll allow people to stream

I actually already had an idea I wanted to try that would have needed 3rd party streaming...

but this...

this could be perfect.

[Roy Awesome]

Originally Posted by Smed

That's true for guys like Day9. My point is if the community gets large enough someone will likely come from within the community itself and throw up a weekly or a nightly cast where they just play the game and say interesting or funny stuff while doing it. Slowly they build an audience.

I've been watching stuff like Day Z as well. All that is completely random.. but there are some pretty decent commentators.

We're going to find out if I'm right soon enough. The tech is nearly done and when we pop the NDA we'll allow people to stream

Yes, please. I'm looking forward to streaming from the get-go (i streamed quite a bit of PS1), so having support in game is something I really look forward to.

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by Smed

I completely disagree about commentators willing to just start talking about a game. Take a look on Twitch TV at the huge assortment of games.

It's really simple - if it's interesting people will throw it up there and talk about it. If a lot of people play a game there will be good commentators that start casting. Most of them will come from the community itself. Day9 didn't start life with 1M viewers. He grew them over time because he's fun to watch.

Smed

Maybe I should start "shoutcasting" Pox Nora! I think I'll start with a four hour session called, "Pox Nora: I have no fucking clue what this game is about!". Or maybe that will be the last thing I say after playing it for the four hours. Good Lord that game needs some kind of tutorial lol...

Seriously though, you are right about people making videos of things that are interesting. My daughter and I watched a guy on youtube make sour gummy candies out of jello one day. Hard to believe, but it did happen. So, I at least owe you the benifit of the doubt on this.

Regardless, being able to watch a stream of your Outfit mates from the tablet app, while also being able to make some drone strikes or what not, is an excellent (perhaps even innovative) extension of the game itself. That kind of thing I support completely, but I wouldn't call it "e-sports". It's not about the spectators, it's still about the players.

All that said, since my father passed away 14 years ago and I stopped watching hockey, I have since concluded that watching sports is the most boring pass time in the universe. I completely don't "get it"; why watch something when you can go have fun playing it (or something else)?. So perhaps I am not the best person to listen to when it comes to "e-sports".

Thanks for stopping by and elaborating on this though, because before you did it was certainly something that disappointed a lot of us.

[Graywolves]

This is something I've always felt Planetside 2 had potential in and was always interested in. I've hit some dead ends with my computer for now but whether or not an eSport scene was present I intended to do some streaming of my game play.


As long as the proper research is done and the tools are provided this could really hit off. I'm personally excited to see what lies in store for the future of Planetside 2 as far as eSport goes.


As someone who would follow or participate in this I can only begin to imagine how I'd feel when I see players I've watched, admired, or even played against and learned to expect on the battlefield. We already had a similar thing going on in the original (acknowledging different friends and enemies wise) so I would expect an eSport scene to just compliment that even further.

[Smed]

Originally Posted by Tatwi

Maybe I should start "shoutcasting" Pox Nora! I think I'll start with a four hour session called, "Pox Nora: I have no fucking clue what this game is about!". Or maybe that will be the last thing I say after playing it for the four hours. Good Lord that game needs some kind of tutorial lol...

Seriously though, you are right about people making videos of things that are interesting. My daughter and I watched a guy on youtube make sour gummy candies out of jello one day. Hard to believe, but it did happen. So, I at least owe you the benifit of the doubt on this.

Regardless, being able to watch a stream of your Outfit mates from the tablet app, while also being able to make some drone strikes or what not, is an excellent (perhaps even innovative) extension of the game itself. That kind of thing I support completely, but I wouldn't call it "e-sports". It's not about the spectators, it's still about the players.

All that said, since my father passed away 14 years ago and I stopped watching hockey, I have since concluded that watching sports is the most boring pass time in the universe. I completely don't "get it"; why watch something when you can go have fun playing it (or something else)?. So perhaps I am not the best person to listen to when it comes to "e-sports".

Thanks for stopping by and elaborating on this though, because before you did it was certainly something that disappointed a lot of us.

Dissapointed a lot of folks? For throwing an idea out?

This whole developer/player relationship thing has to be better than that. We have ideas. We throw them out. You like them or not. We make them or not. You play the game or not. We need the feedback loop and we are trying to go way above anything we've ever done and frankly we want to raise the bar in this industry (and there are developers that do this very well so that is a high bar indeed) for interaction with our player community.

I look at this very simply. We make this game for you. You vote both with your feet and your pocketbook. If you don't play, we're screwed.

so let's be able to discuss ideas and not assume the world is coming to an end on December 22, 2012 (launch date for PS2).

Smed

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by Smed

Dissapointed a lot of folks? For throwing an idea out?

This whole developer/player relationship thing has to be better than that. We have ideas. We throw them out. You like them or not. We make them or not. You play the game or not. We need the feedback loop and we are trying to go way above anything we've ever done and frankly we want to raise the bar in this industry (and there are developers that do this very well so that is a high bar indeed) for interaction with our player community.

I look at this very simply. We make this game for you. You vote both with your feet and your pocketbook. If you don't play, we're screwed.

so let's be able to discuss ideas and not assume the world is coming to an end on December 22, 2012 (launch date for PS2).

Smed

I do apologize. I think I (and likely many others) have just been jaded by other companies, namely Blizzard, who roll out betas and beta forums and then proceed to ignore player feed back completely on top level design concepts. It's no fun to read thousands of post about how some NGE level change to WoW will make the game unfun for people and see Blizzard steam on ahead, because Blizzard knows best. This has happened to me in the Wrath of the Lich King beta, Diablo III beta, and the Mists of Pandaria beta. The bottom line is, Blizzard does whatever Blizzard wants to do, so if you've heard about something changing, it's going to change. Period.


Again, please pardon me for painting SOE with that same brush, because I should know better. I spent a lot of time on SWG forums and I know that SOE put so many of our suggestions into that game before the end (even some of my own). We were well taken care once the kinks were worked out.

I trust you. And now, I also understand where you are coming from. I'll keep these things in mind in the future.

Ps. Pox Nora... lol I actually did play for a couple hours one time and it didn't make any sense to me at all. I figured it would have a tutorial like the SWG/LoN TCG, but I couldn't find one and I was laawwsst!

[IceyCold]

Originally Posted by Smed

Dissapointed a lot of folks? For throwing an idea out?

This whole developer/player relationship thing has to be better than that. We have ideas. We throw them out. You like them or not. We make them or not. You play the game or not. We need the feedback loop and we are trying to go way above anything we've ever done and frankly we want to raise the bar in this industry (and there are developers that do this very well so that is a high bar indeed) for interaction with our player community.

I look at this very simply. We make this game for you. You vote both with your feet and your pocketbook. If you don't play, we're screwed.

so let's be able to discuss ideas and not assume the world is coming to an end on December 22, 2012 (launch date for PS2).

Smed

I'm honestly damn glad you made this post. This is something that NEEDED to be said.

People need to start calming down and stop acting like every single idea tossed out by the development team is the end of the world. Every time something is even talked about being added to the game there are several people who scream "SOE IS FUCKING US AGAIN!!!" "NGE FOR PLANETSIDE!!!" (obviously a bit exaggerated but the point is the same).

This whole community-developer interaction isn't going to work if the community acts like spoiled brats; and I am glad that most of our community does seem able to simply give an opinion without crying like children. But we need to work on being more open to ideas instead of just shutting them out.

On the other hand Smed you have to understand a part of this is fear that Planetside 2 will be turned into something those of us who loved the first so much do not want it to be; and mistakes have been made before with the first Planetside. Many people are still very cautious when Developers promise stuff due to so many times being burned, and not just by SOE but many recent games.

This whole "Developers not just looking at customers as just dollar signs" thing is going to take some time to build; although the Planetside 2 dev team has done a great job so far from my experience.

Cheers.