Infantry Roles

[Minigun]

I was thinking earlier how it might be cool to have "sub" certs classified under actual certs. let me give an a example, say you cert heavy assault you can then cert other abilities which tailor the cert to your play style. IE: heavy assault then you subcert marksman which increases range and accuracy for decreased ROF , or CQC which decreases range and accuracy but increases ROF and possibly faster reloading, or support which is less than the accuracy of marksman but slightly higher than CQC with a larger magazine with less accuracy loss over time while in sustained fire. of course there could also be a "balanced" option to chose if you want the best of all worlds and wish for the weapon to be used as designed. Just thinking it would be cool to have a little more diversity for a grunt since the selection of weapons in PS is already low. Subcerts have no correlation to the Character in the sense of amount of damage they can take or increased health or armor, all subcerts are independent on the weapon for which they correspond to.

these don't have to stop at HA they can go along with all grunt weapons and maybe even armor and air. All players will be kept on an even playing ground and have equal access no matter what BR they may be to these sub certs. I'm not trying to develop "perks" i'm simply trying to increase the variety in which a grunt can be brought to the battlefield.

Feedback please, tell me if you like or not this is an extremely rough idea in my head right now. i want other peoples thoughts and ideas, improve on it if you think there is something here. Thanks.

[Aractain]

The correct way to do this (rather than character based 'glyphs' straight out of WoW) is for an attachment/mod system on weapons.

Having that trade off that suits your playstyle is a Big New Thing and only low budget indie games arn't doing it at this point. The choice of the trade off creates good gameplay and improves variety for other players. Awesomecool.

[Manitou]

This reminds me somewhat of the "buffs" in BFBC2, if I understand the philosophy behind this.

The main thing that I would like to see kept in PS is the level playing field for all players regardless of the BR. All the weapons do the same damage (per class and weapon type) whether you just logged a new toon or you have been playing for years.

If you tip that balance, it makes the game very difficult for those new players to feel useful.

[CutterJohn]

One of the hallmarks of Planetside is that a weapon handles identically regardless of who is holding it. I do not support your idea.

I could go along with a greater selection of weapons with subtler variation between them, ala the Battlefield games so that a player can personalize their playstyle more, or weapon mods that you can fit that accomplish the same task, but these things should not be accessed by additional certs.

[Minigun]

my initial idea was for attachments and mod systems like you said, man would i love that. but i was just simply trying to express my idea, thanks for the feedback!

[Aractain]

Originally Posted by Manitou

All the weapons do the same damage (per class and weapon type) whether you just logged a new toon or you have been playing for years.

Just to point out that isn't important. Its that all characters have the same choices. A level playing field dosn't mean everyone does the same damage. It means they can both choose the thing which makes them do more damage. (And for good design the trade off is something else which makes it not overpowered).

Subtle difference but important!

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Aractain

Subtle difference but important!

An HA cert that gives you multiple HA that are variations on a theme, or an HA weapon with a few mods that are +X for -Y I like.

An HA cert, and a subsequent HA+ cert rather rub me the wrong way. I'm not entirely sure why. It is a subtle difference, since both players still can get it..

I think its something along the lines of the vets vs nubs. Vets could afford the HA+, while the nubs couldn't, not without being totally specialized in that singular area and sucking in all others, so it creates the situation where the vet is actually more powerful than the nub.

[Minigun]

just thought some more about my idea, these roles wouldn't affect the Rock, Paper, Scissors gameplay of planetside because of the situations they would be used in. a lasher with marksman might have faster orbs along with increased accuracy enabling it to go toe to toe with a chaingun at range, also a chaingun with increased ROF could toe to toe with a jackhammer inside of 3 meters, a jackhammer with marksman could have tighter chokes making it effective over 10 meters, a lasher with support could have a higher "lash" damage with slower orbs much like the original lasher for hallway defense situations. jackhammer with support could have a huge magazine and decently high ROF with a huge spread to cover large areas much like a scat max on wide spread. a jackhammer with CQC would carry a buff'd tri-shot like the original at the sacrifice of being ineffective at range.

just was thinking of more applications in which this system could be used.

[Minigun]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

An HA cert that gives you multiple HA that are variations on a theme, or an HA weapon with a few mods that are +X for -Y I like.

An HA cert, and a subsequent HA+ cert rather rub me the wrong way. I'm not entirely sure why. It is a subtle difference, since both players still can get it..

I think its something along the lines of the vets vs nubs. Vets could afford the HA+, while the nubs couldn't, not without being totally specialized in that singular area and sucking in all others, so it creates the situation where the vet is actually more powerful than the nub.

i mentioned in my above post that ALL PLAYERS no matter what BR would be given sub certs to chose what to specialize in.

[TRex]

Originally Posted by Minigun

just thought some more about my idea, these roles wouldn't affect the Rock, Paper, Scissors gameplay of planetside because of the situations they would be used in. a lasher with marksman might have faster orbs along with increased accuracy enabling it to go toe to toe with a chaingun at range, also a chaingun with increased ROF could toe to toe with a jackhammer inside of 3 meters, a jackhammer with marksman could have tighter chokes making it effective over 10 meters, a lasher with support could have a higher "lash" damage with slower orbs much like the original lasher for hallway defense situations. jackhammer with support could have a huge magazine and decently high ROF with a huge spread to cover large areas much like a scat max on wide spread. a jackhammer with CQC would carry a buff'd tri-shot like the original at the sacrifice of being ineffective at range.

just was thinking of more applications in which this system could be used.

I'd much prefer it that each weapon had alt fire modes to do as you state , a bit like how a scattmax can alter the choke and sacrifice rate of fire to hit farther away.
Like CutterJohn says , whatever way you look at it , its like having lasher+1 for those with the ability to spend on it ie vets .
My way lets whoever has the weapon the choice 'at birth' which fire mode to use and in which situation it works best . BR1=BR20

[Minigun]

maybe i should rephrase myself then lets not call them sub certs and lets call it specializations. once you purchase HA you are endowed with a single specialization cert, everyone gets ONE, BR1 or BR20 you may then chose the path you wish to chose with your specialization cert.

edit: i don't believe the Alt firemodes would work because then people would just switch on the fly once they run in a base to fit their needs, when you make it one or the other it brings out the need for people to be specialized in it specifically in a strategic and team setting. if you want the jack of all trades simply chose the balanced option and go to town.

[Hamma]

Originally Posted by Aractain

Just to point out that isn't important. Its that all characters have the same choices. A level playing field dosn't mean everyone does the same damage. It means they can both choose the thing which makes them do more damage. (And for good design the trade off is something else which makes it not overpowered).

Subtle difference but important!

I disagree.

Everything needs to remain even. No weapon damage +1 modifiers range +1 modifiers or crap like that. It should be equal, there should be no need to grind to have more power. Leveling simply means access to more things, not more power.

[FortunadoAE]

I agree with Hamma. It complicates things too much.

Consider also enemy expectations. If you see a guy with an MCG, you know exactly what you're up against. If you introduce a system of upgrades, then you no longer gain that easy intel, which is a huge gameplay issue.

This was a big problem with darklight, which is why they had to add in the DL indicator. If you want more accuracy, go with a more accurate weapon.

[Grimster]

I agree with Hamma also. That is one of the things I have always loved about Planetside.