A minutes silence for everyone

[mikkyT]

Not that I'm trying to stir up policitcal debate, as my views are clear - Saddam must go. Thankfully its not my job to decide how we (the 'civilised' world) go about this task.

But heres a lil something I found at http://www.electrotoxic.com/silence.htm (quoted below)

Makes you think don't it?

--- from http://www.electrotoxic.com/silence.htm ---
If you are still shaken by the horrifying scenes of September 11, please observe a moment of silence for the 5,000 civilian lives lost in the New York, Washington, DC and Pennsylvania attacks.

While we're at it, let's have 13 minutes of silence for the 130,000 Iraqi civilians killed in 1991 by order of President Bush Sr. Take another moment to remember how Americans celebrated and cheered in the streets.

Now another 20 minutes of silence for the 200,000 Iranians killed by Iraqi soldiers using weapons and money provided to young Saddam Hussein by the American government before the great eagle turned all its power against Iraq.

Another 15 minutes of silence for the Russians and 150,000 Afghans killed by troops supported and trained by the CIA.

Plus 10 minutes of silence for 300,000 Japanese killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the Atomic bombs dropped by the USA.

We've just kept quiet for one hour....one minute for the Americans killed in NY, DC, and Pennsylvania...and 59 minutes for their victims throughout the world.



If you are still in awe, let's have another hour of silence for all those killed in Vietnam, which is not something Americans like to admit. The US went to another continent thousands of miles away and burnt tens of thousands of Vietnamese peasants with napalm.

Or for the massacre in Panama in 1989, where American troops attacked poor villagers, leaving 20,000 Panamanians homeless and thousands more dead. Or for the millions of children who have died because of the USA embargoes on Iraq and Cuba. Or the hundreds of thousands brutally murdered throughout the world by US-sponsored civil wars and coups d'etat (Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Bolivia, Guatemala, El Salvador to name a few).

What about the 560,000 Iraqi children (as per current UN data) who have died as a direct cause of the US supported sanctions against Iraq? Are these the children of a lesser God? What about a new generation of nearly one million Iraqi children who are currently having their lives being ruined by improper nutrition, lack of medicine and inferior education because of US supported sanctions.



Maybe, and although the memory of Americans claims otherwise, someone may remember the USA attack on Bagdad where 18,000 civilians were killed. Did someone see it on CNN? Was justice ever served? Or was there even any retaliation? We hope that Americans finally begin to understand their vulnerability and the attacks and other tragedies that they have caused around the world. The dead in other places hurt as much as the dead of the Towers, maybe even more!

Now, let's talk about terrorism, shall we?

[KoldFusion]

It is war people die... even civillians...life moves on. Stop and think.....
how many of the alleged Iraqi civillians were actual military personnel dressed up as civillians for propoganda purposes.

stop and think about how many vietmanese "civillians" had bombs strapped to their chest and tried to kill American soldiers. No matter what age you are.... you are the enemy when you have a weapon and use it. Any human would do it. Your not going to stand there and let a kid with TNT walk up and hug you are you? no.... you'll save yourself.... and if anyone here says different they are lying.

We have killed innocents.... sometimes wrongly.... sorry.... but we aren't the only one that does it.

[Hamma]

[KoldFusion]

i'm sorry i know my comments can be harsh.... I feel for innocent victims everywhere... I really do... as long as they are innocent. Didn't mean to take your thread where you didn't want it to go.... i just had reponse and thought I would share it.

[Squeeky]

Very interesting article, I still dont want to go to war

[Big Bro]

I would be interested where all the numbers are coming from. No credible source was identified. They seem skewed, and they are very generic with the term "civilian".

I'm not denying that people all over the world have died unjustly, or that America has, in the past, been involved in questionable activities. I'm just saying I believe this story to be base on unfounded numbers.

[Mtx]

I kill people in SOCOM all the time. You don't see me having a moment of silence... unless you count the silencer.

[MrVulcan]

At least America tries not to kill the innocent, unlike most others who target them, America is not in the business of gassing the masses, or killing the poor for sport.

What about Hitler, what about Stalin?
my ancestors were killed and run out of the country by Stalin

before that, what about Rome, Egypt, Greece, Gangahs Kahn, barbarians of the north, Vikings, need I go on?

This happens throughout history, all one can do is try to minimize the deaths, that is all. In war, Not killing ends up with you, and those you care about being killed, so all you can do is try and defend yourself, try and make the world a slightly better and safer place for one more day, just one more day.

If someone broke into your house and started shooting at you and your family, would you return fire? Would you save your family, would you preserve life? Would you take any risk to save your life and that of your family? I know that I would. War is nothing more than that in a large case. In the end, you are trying to save your family, your life, and your way of living.

BTW: the nukes saved another chapter in the war, if not for them, we would have had to invade Japan, causing several millions of Japanese deaths and a couple million Americans, so you can say that they saved millions of lives instead of killed millions.

[Mtx]

Originally posted by MrVulcan

If someone broke into your house and started shooting at you and your family, would you return fire?

I'd probably be dead. Generally when someone busts into a house and starts firing they don't stop so you can go get your gun.

Originally posted by MrVulcan

BTW: the nukes saved another chapter in the war, if not for them, we would have had to invade Japan, causing several millions of Japanese deaths and a couple million Americans, so you can say that they saved millions of lives instead of killed millions.

I agree with that. It also made the Russians think twice about finishing off what was left of Europe.

[KoldFusion]

Originally posted by Mtx
I kill people in SOCOM all the time. You don't see me having a moment of silence... unless you count the silencer.

Took your funny pills did ya

[mistled]

Innocents die in war. Always have. Always will. Hence the saying, "War is Hell".

[Revolution]

Now dont correct me if I am wrong. Instead STFU!

If I remember correct near end of WW2 Russia had a massive millitary army on its boarders claiming to 'be protecting' itself.

Now if it was not for the nukes dropped on Japan, that crazy Russian mu Fuka might have gone on and decided to roll through Europe and take it over. Now Europe is a wreck thanks to Hitler, and the Allied forces are worn down. So add the millions of lives in Russia and Europe AND the US that were also saved from using 2 strategic nukes on Military Towns. Not like we bombed Tokyo you fucktards!

[OneManArmy]

Its sad but when you start talking about soldiers, they knew the risks before they signed up. If you are talking about the civilians that die because we place embargos. that is hardly the USA fault, If said country would straigten up then we wouldn't have to do that, so I'd say the blame for thoses deaths goes to whatever country the peole are dying in.

[Lexington_Steele]

It shows you why people in other countries don't like us too much.

If you were not an American and you were presented with those facts, you might slide a notch or two towards being anti American. America's action are not always holy, but like you said war is hell. America has been very lucky in the last 20 years. We have not seen the loss of human life through violent action the way many other countries have. Wars we have been fought have not been on American soil.

I don't think we need to bring Hitler or Stalin in to this unless you really feel that America deserves to be compared to Hitler or Stalin.

I don't think you should have taken the original post as an insult to America. Remember, you could make a similar list for Saddam Hussein and it would probably look much worse. However the original post can give you insight to how and why people in other countries hate us when merely presented with true facts.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by OneManArmy
Its sad but when you start talking about soldiers, they knew the risks before they signed up. If you are talking about the civilians that die because we place embargos. that is hardly the USA fault, If said country would straigten up then we wouldn't have to do that, so I'd say the blame for thoses deaths goes to whatever country the peole are dying in.

Just so you know, in many middle eastern countries, any male of the age of 18 is required to serve in the military. It is not optional. There was no point at which they voluntarily signed up knowing the risks.

Off the top of my head I know that Israel requires military service of their male citizens and so does Iran. It would not suprise me if Iraq had a similar requirement of all its men.