HA's balance in PS2

[cryosin]

What I'm going to say is probably going to butt heads with many others, but I feel I need to let it out.

Every weapon in the game should serve a purpose. The idea that one weapon is "simply better" is not something that's entertaining. Even if one weapon is used more, as long as there is a reason for it to exist I feel it has its place.

Let me use planetside 1 examples:

Suppressor: No reason to use this weapon. Its sole purpose was you spawn @ a base with no access to equip terms and you can shoot. It should never be in your load out. 2 cert points gets you medium assault and weapons that are significantly better. Id take 2 cert points out of using a suppressor any time.

My main gripe:
Function of HA's.
The HA's where extremely hard to balance because they all served roles that made no sense.

The MCG was all purpose meatgrinder. It was very good in skilled hands and allowed heavy spray and pray.

The jackhammer was a souped up shotgun.

The lasher was basically a plasma rifle from Unreal Tournament, except really slow and clunky and hard to use(I got used to it, but its got a high skill ceiling unquestionably).

I don't like this design. HA's should be powerful, but having HA's that replace the purpose of another weapon is not good game design. If i'm playing NC and I love shotguns, I am never going to use one. Im probably going to play NC in general if I love shotguns. I personally DONT play NC because I don't like shotguns.

The TR have the MCG, which is about as good as the cycler long range(in the right hands), and significantly better at medium to close range.

So, in reality, the VS are the only faction that had an accurate design. The pulsar was very powerful medium to long range, whereas the Lasher was very good close to medium range. Many people dislike the lasher, but in the right hands it was still potent in close quarters.

Here is my opinion, which im sure will cause disagreement:

The NC heavy assault should not be a shotgun weapon. I feel that a heavy hitting slow rate of fire weapon is fine, but not a shotgun. Maybe design it around a shotgun, but don't just make it a better shotgun. I think some kind of high powered gauss rifle with slow rate of fire would be awesome, but maybe a flak cannon would work too. A flak cannon is "like" a shotgun, but its shots are less controlled but do more damage.

For the TR, I think the minigun is fine. EXCEPT, it needs to do more damage but have higher recoil. Make it an indoor weapon. In planetside 2 the mini chain gun was very close to a cycler, and that is not good design imo.

The VS, as I stated, are just fine. However, I feel the Lasher should feel more powerful. it doesn't have to be more powerful, just feel like it is.
"Wait, that doesn't make sense.."
Let me explain:
The lasher shoots a stream of orbs that fly at slow speeds. Essentially they are giant paintballs. At close quarters, you miss one or two of these and you are toast 1on1. While at long range, it's basically meaningless since they can be dodged like slow moving paintballs. While playing planetside 1, here are my feelings of how the lasher should feel. I have two ways I think the lasher could be tweaked to feel more powerful yet remain balanced:

A) Reduce the damage of each orb, but increase the fire rate and travel speed. The way I see the lasher is more like a Link Gun from unreal tournament(yes I know, lots of UT references but bear with me). The link gun is very fun to use and rewarding. You might miss the first few shots but it nails and you land a kill. Its hard to dodge because there are so many projectiles heading your way, but missing too many shots will still cost the user.

B) Leave it the same, except increase the size of the orb. The orbs on the lasher are way too small and a slight miss will cause you to not do any damage. This is very unforgiving compared to the other empires. The NC have a shotgun(or flak cannon), so a slight miss still does damage. The TR have a minigun, so a few missed shots will hurt but your back on track in no time. The lasher is harder to use, easier to miss, and has a slower TTK than the other weapons. In my opinion it should "feel" fair. This is more of a buff than a change, but It would help newer players adjust to the game without being forced to play a different faction.

Sorry for the long post, I had to get it off my chest. My biggest gripe about PS1's infantry combat was how these weapons where designed. Hopefully people at least see what im saying and take a look. My ideas are just blue prints.

[SKYeXile]

I think Before you try to balance anything you should deterimne the purpose of HA in general, and thats close range fire to takedown multiple opponents at once.

shotgun imo is prob fine for NC, provided its alpha isnt huge, these guns should be made for continued fire, not their alpha strike.

Lasher need to fucking go, its the only gun thats not direct fire and its damage per clip was subpar to the other HA's, it need to be broughtup in DPS, make it direct fire and drop the lasher while extending the clip.

MCG...meh. i think its fine. obviously it will kill alot faster in PS2 though.

[Nabeshin]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

I think Before you try to balance anything you should deterimne the purpose of HA in general, and thats close range fire to takedown multiple opponents at once.

shotgun imo is prob fine for NC, provided its alpha isnt huge, these guns should be made for continued fire, not their alpha strike.

Lasher need to fucking go, its the only gun thats not direct fire and its damage per clip was subpar to the other HA's, it need to be broughtup in DPS, make it direct fire and drop the lasher while extending the clip.

MCG...meh. i think its fine. obviously it will kill alot faster in PS2 though.

Instead of the way the PS1 lasher was, I think it would be cool if it instead shot something kind of like a chain lighting beam, hit someone with the main beam and it could split off and do minor damage to those around the person getting shot. Would still be able to call it a "lasher" and have it be a totally different weapon.

[Coreldan]

I dont want a shotgun HA for NC. It was horrible being pigeonholed into shotguns everywhere.

I don't mind shotguns, but I've played ONE game in my entire life where I felt shotguns werent complete shit.

I know how good the jackhammer was, but the fact its a shotgun means you can just use something else after 10m.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by Nabeshin

Instead of the way the PS1 lasher was, I think it would be cool if it instead shot something kind of like a chain lighting beam, hit someone with the main beam and it could split off and do minor damage to those around the person getting shot. Would still be able to call it a "lasher" and have it be a totally different weapon.

oh wait, i totally forgot.


GIVE ME VORTEX WHIP!

[Nabeshin]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

oh wait, i totally forgot.


GIVE ME VORTEX WHIP!

Something like that yes, but I can't say I liked how the whip functioned and it killed far to slow.

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by Nabeshin

Something like that yes, but I can't say I liked how the whip functioned and it killed far to slow.

yea well...it was good at really long ranges like at 35-40(its max range) but yea in close it sucked. id like to see that reversed. it should wreak people close range and then do less and further ranges ofcourse.

I really like how it functioned found it great to aim and really fun, the jazz agree's maelstrom bailing on walls...its was our together thing.

People are gonna complain if it hits more than 1 target though and claim is the only HA with splash....etc.etc..id like to see them all more or less the same. with abit of a different flavour to them.

[Zekeen]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

I dont want a shotgun HA for NC. It was horrible being pigeonholed into shotguns everywhere.

I don't mind shotguns, but I've played ONE game in my entire life where I felt shotguns werent complete shit.

I know how good the jackhammer was, but the fact its a shotgun means you can just use something else after 10m.

I miss the old days when the jackhammer made sense, and did it's job. Unfortunately it did it TOO well. Since we were better in close combat, the VS and TR complained enough to make the devs forget we had about a 10 foot killing range and no real anti armor capacity compared to a medium-long ranged chain gun and long range energy weapon.

Now, for the record, the HA probably won't have a single HA weapon type. There will be variety to balance it all out. Biiger guns and better armor works even more so now that they have much more in the way of perks for lesser classes. I mean, come on, cloaking, deployables, medi-units, and JETPACKS! Keeping the HA role the way it always was won't cause any problem, since there are more balancing parts to PS2.

[cryosin]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

I think Before you try to balance anything you should deterimne the purpose of HA in general, and thats close range fire to takedown multiple opponents at once.

shotgun imo is prob fine for NC, provided its alpha isnt huge, these guns should be made for continued fire, not their alpha strike.

Lasher need to fucking go, its the only gun thats not direct fire and its damage per clip was subpar to the other HA's, it need to be broughtup in DPS, make it direct fire and drop the lasher while extending the clip.

MCG...meh. i think its fine. obviously it will kill alot faster in PS2 though.

The jackhammer was more of an alpha strike weapon. I guess a machine shotgun would be kinda cool but that feels very TR'ish. I think in general a shotgun should be its own thing and not an HA.

The Lasher I agree with but i do like the idea of flying orbs of death. They just need to be tweaked in line with the other HA's.

MCG is fine, yes, but its undeniably good at some ridiculous ranges if you are a good shot. A nice spray will do almost identical damage as a Cycler, which shouldn't be the case.

[Xyntech]

While variety is fun, I always felt like it was taken too far in PS1's HA, at least considering how important HA was in base and tower fights, the only fights that really progressed the game.

The three empires HA all attacked the problems from such radically different angles (the VS one not even making that much sense) that it's no wonder there was constant whining about balance.

I think it would be more interesting to get some weapons that were as skyexile said, more or less the same but with different flavors. I'd actually like to see both a short and a medium range HA for all 3 empires.

Even the Lasher could make a return, as long as it was completely redesigned to be an empire specific Special Assault weapon, with NC and TR ES SA weapons of their own.

While HA probably wont be as all important this time around, I still would like to see it's balance brought a little close in line. The way they had it in Planetside, it would essentially be like if they gave the TR the cycler, the NC the Sweeper and the VS the Rocklet and tried to claim they were the same thing. It makes no sense to have them be that radically different.

[SKYeXile]

I have herd them talking that the light assault rifles will have the highest TTK, i hope i misread or misinterpreted that, imo Heavy assault at close range though have the fastest TTK and should be the prime class for pushing in close quarters situations.

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

I have herd them talking that the light assault rifles will have the highest TTK, i hope i misread or misinterpreted that, imo Heavy assault at close range though have the fastest TTK and should be the prime class for pushing in close quarters situations.

Just to make sure, you do realize that "highest TTK" means it kills the slowest, not fastest?

Just making sure, cos your post sorta felt controversial with itself

[Baneblade]

In my mind HA should always have been closer to MGs IRL. HA in PS1 was the weapons of choice in 80% of infantry combat scenarios.

I see HA like this:

A secondary weapon you deploy in the form of an MG tripod. It is primarily a position defense weapon. The MG tripod has an armor plate that will help protect the user from frontal damage.

NC: Sabot Autocannon
TR: Gatling Chaingun
VS: Plasmic Neutralizer

[Pozidriv]

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

In my mind HA should always have been closer to MGs IRL. HA in PS1 was the weapons of choice in 80% of infantry combat scenarios.

I see HA like this:

A secondary weapon you deploy in the form of an MG tripod. It is primarily a position defense weapon. The MG tripod has an armor plate that will help protect the user from frontal damage.

NC: Sabot Autocannon
TR: Gatling Chaingun
VS: Plasmic Neutralizer

A bipod weapon is hardly an Assault weapon. Btw, we do have mounted guns ATM, engineers set em up.

If we had some sort of power armour today, i would consider some type of chaingun to be a weapon used by a soldier in said armour or some other high volume or destructive weapon.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Pozidriv

A bipod weapon is hardly an Assault weapon. Btw, we do have mounted guns ATM, engineers set em up.

If we had some sort of power armour today, i would consider some type of chaingun to be a weapon used by a soldier in said armour or some other high volume or destructive weapon.

So HA only for MAXes, gotcha.