Balance: UPGRADES imbalance the game and are limiting.

[Buggsy]

True SIDEGRADE Tanks:

-Added weight to hull decreases top speed, decreases hull rotate speed, decreases acceleration, decreases hill climbing angle.

-Added weight to turret decreases top speed, decreases hull rotation speed, decreases acceleration, decreases hill climbing angle, decreases turret rotation.

Machine guns carry lots of ammo and add less weight than light guns in weight.

Light guns carry most ammunition and add the lightest weight.

Medium guns carry medium ammunition and add average weight.

Heavy guns carry least amount of ammo and add most weight.

1) Driver/Hull Gunner. Hull gun default is Machine Gun. Hull gun traverses about +/- 60 degrees. Hull gun can be removed completely to save more weight, leaving just the driver. Sidegraded to to light/medium/heavy cannon of either HE or AP type. Adds weight to hull.

2) Turret gunner. Default gun is Machine Gun. Turret can be removed completely to save weight, turning tank into a WW2 type tank destroyer if you have a hull gun. Sidegraded to to light/medium/heavy cannon of either HE or AP type. Adds weight to turret.

3) Cupolla gunner. Can only be a machine gun. Cupolla gun can be removed completely to save weight. Adds weight to turret.

-Additional ammunition sidegrades adds weight and increases threshold in which tank starts smoking and lights on fire.

-More powerful engine sidegrades increases threshold in which tank starts smoking and lights on fire. Takes even more damage in rear.

1) Light armor sidegrade Least weight added, can add to all sides in any combination of other armor.

2) Medium armor sidegrade Average weight added, can add to all sides in any combination of other armor.

3) Heavy armor sidegrade Most weight added, can add to all sides in any combination of other armor.

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So a typical MBT setup would be:

-Heavy front armor, medium side armor, light rear armor. MG Hull gun, Medium turret gun, MG cupolla gun. (3 player tank). Won't be able to climb those steep hills, not the best top speed and acceleration.

A Heavy tank setup designed by a lonewolf would be:

-Heavy front armor, Medium side armor, medium rear armor, big engine. Heavy HE Hull gun, light HE turret gun, MG cupolla gun. Won't be able to climb grades higher than 40%, top speed about half of a MBT now, flames/smokes real easy.

A Heavy super tank designed for squad use would be:

-Heavy front armor, Heavy side armor, medium rear armor, big engine. Medium HE Hull gun, Heavy AP turret gun, MG cupolla gun. Extra turret ammunition. Won't be able to climb grades higher than 30%. Top speed 1/4th of that of a MBT now, crawls, flames/smokes real easy.

A tank destroyer designed by a lonewolf player:

-Heavy front armor, light side armor, light rear armor, light engine. Heavy AP Hull gun, turret gunner position removed, a decent MG cupolla gunner. Extra Hull gun ammo. Would be a little faster than MBT today, would be able to climb most hills alright, dies to one hit in the rear and 2 hits to the sides, but can take massive damage in front.

A light 2 player tank:

-Medium front armor, light side armor, light rear armor, light engine. Removed hull gun, light AP turret gun, removed cupolla gun. Would be 50% faster than MBT today, would be able to climb hills beautifully, accelerates awesomely, stops on a dime, turns beautifuly, turret rotates very quickly, doesn't flame/smoke so easily.

A superheavy tank that can't move away from the spawn point (there are limits):

-Heavy armor in front, back, rear. Heavy hull cannon, medium turret cannon, extra ammunition for hull/turret cannons, medium engine. Spawns and then can't move.

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A true SIDEGRADE ESF:

-Rocketpods decrease maneuverability allot, top speed allot

-Default no afterburner

-Light afterburner decreases maneuverability

-Heavy afterburner decreases maneuverability even more, and decreases top speed, but lasts much longer than light afterburner

-Flares decrease maneuverability a bit, top speed a bit

-Heavy nose guns decreases maneuverability, top speed

-Extra ammunition for anything decreases maneuverability, top speed

[Fafnir]

I don't agree with specific examples you mentioned, but I get the idea what you are trying to say - each attachment or weapon should have both pros and cons. I wish the devs went this way with Planetside 2 development, balancing would be much easier.

Example:

Right now rocket pods can only be balanced by buffing or nerfing their effectiveness in combat. With above system the devs could nerf them without reducing damage, accuracy or rate of fire, but by giving them bigger drawbacks.

[Buggsy]

Originally Posted by Fafnir

I don't agree with specific examples you mentioned, but I get the idea what you are trying to say - each attachment or weapon should have both pros and cons. I wish the devs went this way with Planetside 2 development, balancing would be much easier.

Example:

Right now rocket pods can only be balanced by buffing or nerfing their effectiveness in combat. With above system the devs could nerf them without reducing damage, accuracy or rate of fire, but by giving them bigger drawbacks.

Well since we have upgrades and not sidegrades then the only solution to the "rocketpod question" *giggles* is to nerf them.

Why do you disagree with the tank sidegrade idea? It would satisfy both the "We need multicrew tanks" camp and the "I still want to solo camp"; along with solving the "these upgrades are tame and lame" camp; and "Where are my damn tank-killers" camp; in addition to solving the "tank spam is a problem" camp because the default loadout would be a MachinGun equipped tank not one with HEAT damage radius spam that can spam doorways.

I agree with all the camps. Multicrewed vehicles should be more powerful, and I should be able to solo, and these upgrades are lame and tame, and where are my damn tank-killers, and giving everyone immediate access to the best tank setup to spam doorways with HEAT at the get go isn't the best thing.

[Buggsy]

...and similarly infantry classes are imbalanced without something like the PS1 cloak/agile/rexxo class/inventory setup.

[Rothnang]

I don't mind if filling a slot for the first time is a genuine upgrade and the sidegrades don't happen until you have mutiple options for the slot. They just have to be careful that there is actually a reason to switch out your slots, right now there isn't really if you know which one is best.

With fighters obviously rocket pods are still a no brainer, they are a raw kill generating machine that has no equal in the game.

[Sentnl]

Originally Posted by Buggsy

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A true SIDEGRADE ESF:

-Rocketpods decrease maneuverability allot, top speed allot

-Default no afterburner

-Light afterburner decreases maneuverability

-Heavy afterburner decreases maneuverability even more, and decreases top speed, but lasts much longer than light afterburner

-Flares decrease maneuverability a bit, top speed a bit

-Heavy nose guns decreases maneuverability, top speed

-Extra ammunition for anything decreases maneuverability, top speed

Aircraft don't lose maneuverability with payload attachments, your PAK FA, F-22, eurofighter typhoon... they don't carry every weapon in that countries arsenal.
They have different aircraft that perform to mission specification, with different weapon systems.

Here, in Planetside 2, in whatever year it is, they've developed a single fighter, instead of many, because it is the pinnacle of their technology, it performs perfectly in all aspects (max speed, climb rate, max altitude, etc.)

The weapon systems, have obviously been designed around this fact, that they deploy only the single fighter. They wouldn't have designed them to hinder it, that's just not smart.

Afterburners in no way decrease maneuverability, they INCREASE it, especially when supermaneuverability is involved. That is apparent with the PAK FA and the F-22.
Afterburners increase fuel consumption, and the fighters that have been developed in the planetside 2 universe, are in an age without fuel!

The flares decreasing maneuverability is just silly, these things weigh 140-280 grams undeployed weight.
The flares are also self-renewing, so I would assume they're a chemical reaction of some sort.. potentially integrated with the engine and/or the planets natural gasses.
They're probably "lighter than air"

As for ammunition decreasing speeds, again, the fighter is designed around its payload weight.

*spice weasel*

[Buggsy]

Originally Posted by Sentnl

Aircraft don't lose maneuverability with payload attachments,

Unless the laws of physics, like momentum mass and air resistance, have changed than yes they do.

[Sentnl]

Originally Posted by Buggsy

Unless the laws of physics, like momentum mass and air resistance, have changed than yes they do.

Pedantic, and you also missed the entire point.

The maneuvering ability of aircraft is with assumed payloads. You will never see a neutron bomb fitted to a cessna 172. For this will destroy its flight capability.

However, you might see a genocide bomb fitted to a b-2, where it's flight capability WILL NOT be changed, because it was designed for those payloads.

ESF were DESIGNED to be fitted with a nose gun, and wing attachments, in this case A2G rockets and A2A missiles, both of which use very similar systems - if you haven't noticed.

[Marinealver]

Originally Posted by Fafnir

I don't agree with specific examples you mentioned, but I get the idea what you are trying to say - each attachment or weapon should have both pros and cons. I wish the devs went this way with Planetside 2 development, balancing would be much easier.

Example:

Right now rocket pods can only be balanced by buffing or nerfing their effectiveness in combat. With above system the devs could nerf them without reducing damage, accuracy or rate of fire, but by giving them bigger drawbacks.

Yeah it is funny how the cert system just makes things better. There are only a few slot certs in which you have to pick one or 2 but most of the other items are just improvments. Example basice armor you got one that makes you able to take more damage from bullets (allthough you need to max one out just to get 1 extra bullet of health) and one that upgrades your armor to blasts. But none of those slow down your speed.

new weapons are not side grades also but with the $tation Ca$h quick weapon unlock I can see why many people are asuming it has become a Pay 2 Win trap that most Free 2 Play games have evolved into.