The sad state of PS2

[Kaldapas]

Hi everyone,

As we noticed more hackers are running on our beloved servers for last few days. How long do you think it'll take for SOE to do something about it, or do you think the game will simply die in a week or so like many other online games in recent past? Im having my doubts if it was smart thing to put hundred bucks into this game even though i love it so much, i must say i simply can't enjoy it lately.

I could never understand one thing though: why SOE or any other company can't simply sue those pesky script makers for ruining their product for 5-20 mil. at least. Of course those "smart" dudes wouldn't have money to pay so they'd have to go to serve some nice jail time for 5-10 years or more.

I firmly believe next time they would think twice before registering new website and promoting those pathetic hack scripts. In the end its a win win situation for a company and consumer. I really don't think theres hundreds of coders who'd risk going to jail after one or two smart moves done by gaming companies. I'm tired of seeing great games getting killed off one by one.

What do you think is the real reason for not acting ?

Where do i need to send small vids [like this not sure if its allowed to post vids here] to report those little losers ? It would make me very sad to see this game die so fast.

[Suitepee]

I must not be seeing these rampant hackers on Miller. I've only ever seen one speedhacker in my entire gametime thus far, although it seems people are often yelling in chat about reporting hackers during base fights. (whether there's any truth in them I do not know)

I believe you're meant to report said hacker via a support ticket or whatnot.

[Kaldapas]

Have you logged in for last few days? I haven't met a single hacker in the first month!!! Was starting to think soe had some nice code running to quickly and efficiently eliminate all of those losers. But theres been so many in last few days its getting so bad that i don't wanna play anymore.

Server Mallory.

[ringring]

I haven't seen any hackers on Miller.

But I agree with you, I don't know why they don't sue. There are guys out there making a living, or at least profiting from, destroying the work of game developers and ruining many thousands of peoples paid for game time, I would have thought a there should be a legal solution.

[Qwan]

Yea I have seen quite a few hackers on Woodman. The speed hack is pretty common, maxes moving at faster speeds and libs flying like mossy's and reavers. I hope they really clamp down hard on protecting and preserving this game, guess well find out in the new year.

[SeraphC]

They need to find out who they are though. Suing the guy who uses the hack is entirely none effective, because, well, you can't sue all of them and it might not even hold up. Suing the guy who publishes them would only work if he was actually profiting from it. And even then ... people have been selling stuff like that for ages.

Most of these 'hacks' are only allowed because the devs really have no clue what they are doing. I remember back when I was playing Lineage2, in the early days, the game was open to SQL injection and a whole series of easy to fix/avoid exploits.
They need to start building their damn games decently, hiring people with an actual education. It's their own damn fault, it's not even hard to do.

[Kaldapas]

Thats why im saying sue the makers of those scripts. [cant be hard to track one down]

Those little kids who downloads them know nothing more than how to take money from their working mothers to buy that cool looking cammo. And all of them are absolutely horrible at the game.

If its true about Miller, then i guess theres more admins watching over more populated servers [which makes total sense btw]. Wish there was an option to switch servers. Not gonna start anew after reaching level 34 and having spent so many certs already.

Was thinking about a thread where players could just upload small vids, like 10-30 sec showcasing obvious cases. One or two admins have a constant eye on it and just log in after new vid and check if its true - then just type command and bam those losers almost instantly gone. Very fast and effective way. Never underestimate your community.

Now only problem with this is that SOE should acknowledge the ..problem and many companies don't like that.

[PredatorFour]

Ive seen hackers on Miller. Ive been killed in the VS spawn room a couple of times, seen a couple of speed hackers too. Theres probably people who only hack a little like they did in the first game so its hardly noticeable , but makes enough of a difference.

All they need to do is keep a few GMs on to police the servers like they did in the first 2 weeks.... but then seemed to stop.

[Tharrn]

I have also seen cases of shooting from within the ground or walls on Miller and sudden crashes of the whole squad. Question is always if it's bugs or deliberate hacks. Hard to prove.

[Sledgecrushr]

Originally Posted by Qwan

libs flying like mossy's and reavers.

With a fully upgraded speedframe a lib can fly as fast as a mossy or reaver.

[ringring]

Originally Posted by Tharrn

I have also seen cases of shooting from within the ground or walls on Miller and sudden crashes of the whole squad. Question is always if it's bugs or deliberate hacks. Hard to prove.

The crashes thing is a bug apparently, but it's one that can be triggered if you know how, ie an exploit.

Higby tweeted the other day about asking for more info.

And btw, you can never keep hackers out, all you can do is make it harder for them and ban them when you find them.

On the other hand the people who create the hacks and sell them should be in jail.

[Chewy]

I seen a few on Waterson. Only got video on 2 so far and haven't bothered to edit it yet.

Though Im not 100% on one person I have video on. To me he looked like a dead player sliding around within the wrong spawn room, then when my line of sight was broken for half a tick he turned into a different class and faction. Followed him for a bit and didn't see anything else but got a clear view of his name.

Read that it may have been a bug, but not certain.

[SeraphC]

Originally Posted by Kaldapas

Thats why im saying sue the makers of those scripts. [cant be hard to track one down]

It could be harder than you think to track them down. And even if you do there are still plenty of countries with no or very little legislation about the internet and the likes.

If they do find them, before suing them, they should offer them a job. Often these are young, gifted people.

Originally Posted by Kaldapas

Now only problem with this is that SOE should acknowledge the ..problem and many companies don't like that.

Acknowledging a problem means people will expect a solution within a given time. They want to hear: "We are aware of the problem and are working on a fix. It should be ready at the latest two weeks from now. We will also be dedicating resources to preventing similar things from happening in the future or if they do, detecting them early on."
They don't want to hear: "We are aware of the problem."

Given their left they game open for the most basic attacks imaginable (if the video in the OP is genuine), they might not even know what parts of their code/system are vulnerable.

[Beerbeer]

I see the same types of hacks, which to me means that Sony hasn't done anything to at least auto-detect these let alone write some code that prevents them from running in the first place.

Kind of pathetic if you ask me. If they're not spending any time reverse engineering these hacks to both auto-detect and auto-prevent, they'll never go away.

[Stanis]

Playing devils advocate here for a moment.

I'd like to know what exactly the law allows Sony to do - other than switch that account off.
Lets Sue. Great. What exactly would they sue these people for ?


They modified the game experience on their computer. Transitory. In RAM/thread/process.
Such that the otherwise legitimate client sent legitimate data to the server. (Which rules out laws protecting transmission or hacking of server).
They probably didn't modify, decrypt or reverse engineer any executables or systems files actually protected by copyright or something like the DCMA protections.

They entered an agreement with Sony. It probably said they wouldn't do this.
I can't find a google copy of the PS2 EULA to check. I did find a reference to PS1 which says something like
"9. You may not use any third party software to modify the Software to change Game play."

If it's breaching an agreement then it's civil rather than criminal law which makes it more expensive to prosecute than simply switch off.
Many countries simply don't care. These activity aren't enforcable there.

This is where the concept of Lien is useful. Game is free to play. But requires a $10 refundable deposit to toggle the account active.
(Meaning you can deactivate and get your desposit back any time you want ..)
Which is almost a subscription model. Not going to appeal to the F2P model market is it?