AGN: ReachCast Episode 47 CQ - Outfit Progression Rank Benefits....?

[ReachCast]

This weeks question is ...

“What kind of benefit options should outfit progression ranks have?”

This is based on this post from SOE

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...ression.83022/

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[Rahabib]

I hate outfit benefits or "perks" if they are going to end up like the implants. It creates an unfair advantage, and I think a lot of outfits will just try to "farm" outfit points.

What I would like to see is cosmetic items like special camos unlocked, and new titles (not that anyone cares about titles).

Also, there should an outfit logo that can be used in game. They only get this once their outfit reaches a certain rank. Now that we have player studio, an outfit can create a logo, and when they do well in a zone, it shows as the leading outfit on the scoreboard. Perhaps after the cap, it should show the faction logo as it does now, but under neath it, it shows the major contributing outfit logo as well. How this is calculated, is up to debate - but regardless, its still considered cosmetic as to not penalize outfits that cant farm.

Perhaps eventually, when orbital strikes are involved, the platoon that scores enough points can use them. However, it needs to be extremely hard and rare occurrence, not a once an hour thing but something you see once or twice a week. Orbital strikes shouldn't be an instant "win" button.

[Chaff]

^
This. Pretty wise.
How about adding this ?
....... the ability to request and receive CUSTOM VOICE MACROS that only that Outfit has access to. I think that'd prove to be a popular feature (and cool) if it's not too difficult for the devs to implement.
.

[CprBryan]

An outfit desinged camo for weps and armor ( to be optional ofc)something unique for each outfit that would make the outfits not be common and not every player to have to pay for a camo

[Emperor Newt]

I just dont want it to be any kind of ingame advantage. The last thing the game needs (besides random crate drops) is to put higher ranked outfits over other outfits and/or outfit over non-outfit players.

[Sentrosi]

Originally Posted by Emperor Newt

I just dont want it to be any kind of ingame advantage. The last thing the game needs (besides random crate drops) is to put higher ranked outfits over other outfits and/or outfit over non-outfit players.

I disagree with this. PS2 is designed to be played as a team. Outfits work hard to keep and retain their members and to keep them focused on objectives. There has to be some sort of reward for the outfits hard work and dedication to the game.

Similar to the way our player certs work. Give the outfits a way to differentiate themselves on the battlefield. Say you're an armor outfit. Why not a bit faster respawn timer on your tank? Or a reduction in resources used? Tad bit faster ROF?

Also I like the idea of outfit-specific decals and armor only accessible if you're a member of the outfit.

[Grendalsh]

I have a lengthy expansion on pg 13 of the outfit Progression thread.
Ideally, outfit progression should NOT reward XP/Cert bonuses, and definitely not combat bonuses.
Progression should reward cosmetics, logistics bonuses, and conceivably could serve as a gate for player generated Missions. The premise is outfits are military units, and how effective they are determines how much 'good stuff' they can requisition from command. 'Outfit Activity' would be measured based on how much squad XP Outfit member's earned while in an outfit squad or platoon. XP/score earned by lone wolves or members in non-outfit squads/platoons would not count towards progression. This way large outfits would not benefit from inactive members, zerg outfits wouldn't benefit from PUG players, and Outfits wouldn't benefit from members in zerg squads. Conversely, small, focused and highly effective units would be able to unlock higher ranked rewards than large zerg outfits.

Outfits would have three sets of tiered rankings:

Simple acheivement metrics: have 48/96/144/192 members, have avg BR of 10/20/30 etc. These would be simple cosmetic and logistic unlocks that the outfit could keep even if their metric dropped below the threshold. All outfits, including zergs, would be able to unlock at least some of these, and would include things like outfit decals/camo and extra way points.

Decaying Ranked metrics: These would be based on the Outfits activities for the previous week, and would decay if not maintained. Examples - have x/y/z score based on base captures, or Vehicle combat, or Air combat. Your outfit's score in that activity the previous week would unlock tiered Logistics, Cosmetics, and Player Missions. If your outfit didn't maintain that tier of that type of activity, the Ranking would decay and eventually the outfit would lose access to those rewards. Most outifits would be able to unlock Tier 1 of some specialty, but would require effort to either maintain it or progress to further Tiers. Zerg outfits could possibly acheive Tier 2 of Base captures just through brute force, but dedicated outfits should be able to place higher. It would require massive outfits with dedicated platoons to acheive high tiers in multiple specialties.

Competative Ranking metrics: These would be based on the Outfit's activities for the past week, and ranked against other outfits in that faction/server. Examples - Ranked top 5% of outfits at tank v tank. Ranked top 1% at Base Captures. Ranked #3/#2/#1 at Defensive XP. These would reward premium Cosmetics and Logistics, and large-scale Player missions.

An Outfit's ability to generate a Player Mission would be based on two things:
members that had certed into the ability to create Player Missions
The types and ranks of Player Missions the Outfit had unlocked based on the above rankings.

Thus, an outfit with a high Vehicle combat rating and several squad leaders with certs in Player Missions could create missions for Vehicle combat or Troop transport. Outfits with high Air combat rating and certed leaders could generate Air Superiority or Bombing Run missions. Because the Type and Rank of Player Mission is tied to the Outfit, not an individual, no one individual can take away an Outfit's ability to generate missions - they would just need another outfit member to have certs in Player Missions. More importantly, players wouldn't have access to high-ranked Player Missions unless they were in an outfit with that access.

[camycamera]

i think that they shouldn't bother with outfit progression at all. i propose a system in which outfits gain a total amount of XP from every player in the outfit (the players still gain the same xp as usual though, and the players must be in an outfit squad/platoon, but XP gained from non-outfit members do not contribute, like what Grendalsh said above me), and that leaders should be able to control the xp and give these certs to different players within the outfit depending on how good they think they have performed. a bit different than the proposed system, but i think it would be fair system, better than outfit progression IMO.


but to answer the question, for "benefits" when outfits rank up, maybe the ability to choose which camo from the store the whole outfit can wear for free? idk, but i would prefer what i said before, i can't really think of anything else regarding the system they propose.

[Blynd]

It should be based on members play not weather they were in an outfit squad/platoon cause you will see alliance platoons stop running and open pug platoons will also stop because the emphass will be on outfit only cause they will generate outfit points.

Its a dangerous road to start down.

[Grendalsh]

@Blynd I disagree. Remember that the qualification for being in an outfit squad/platoon is that the squad/ platoon leader is in your outfit. Thus it's possible to have a platoon with squads from four different outfits all earning squad xp that counts toward their outfit's weekly rating.
Outfit progression should be a reward for an outfit that works together, that is internally organized and active. It should reflect that outfit's effectiveness, cohesion, and focus.
Outfit progression should NOT be awarded for random outfit players in pubbie platoons or playing in someone else's squads. Otherwise I could form a zerg outfit, recruit every nugget Br1 and farm Outfit xp from their flailing.

[Emperor Newt]

Originally Posted by Sentrosi

I disagree with this. PS2 is designed to be played as a team. Outfits work hard to keep and retain their members and to keep them focused on objectives. There has to be some sort of reward for the outfits hard work and dedication to the game.

Similar to the way our player certs work. Give the outfits a way to differentiate themselves on the battlefield. Say you're an armor outfit. Why not a bit faster respawn timer on your tank? Or a reduction in resources used? Tad bit faster ROF?

Also I like the idea of outfit-specific decals and armor only accessible if you're a member of the outfit.

All that does is making veteran players even stronger (besides skill and experience) then newbies. PS2 already has a large gap there. And yes, I think that this is a bad thing. I could live with either res or cooldown reductions, but RoF? Hell no. That's like giving them a flat out damage increase.

You can reward dedication and hard work in a lot of ways. But I don't think that giving people ingame advantages above other players is the right way to do so. All it does is pissing of new players. And that is something PS2 cannot afford, especially since it is still pretty good at delivering a bad new player experience.
By the same argument you could just give slightly harder hitting bullets to alpha squad members. For their "dedication".

[fierce deity]

I do not think that Outfit Perks should award any in combat advantage in any way. Organizational Tools, Logistics Tools, Transport (Both Troop Transport & Nanite Carrying) upgrades, Camos & Decals, and other out of combat tools should be the way to go with these.

Players should have to remain with the outfit for at least 2 weeks to recieve the perks. Outfits should earn points to unlock points by doing things like having a stable, active playerbase, Running organized squads, capping/defending bases, taking out/controlling secondary objectives and such. Raw kills by the outfit should have no impact on outfit points since that would give large outfits an overwhelming advantage over small outfits; It should be entirely objective and organization based. Outfits get evaluated on a weekly basis. If they fail to meet criteria, they lose points, if they meet them they gain points. Losing enough points results in losing perks.

Camos
Perk: Free outfit Camo and Decal for all members.

Organizational Options.
Perks: More squads in a platoon OR Ability to split squads into fire teams OR PL/SL gets a force everyone to spawn at closest hard spawn to me button (As the crow flies.) OR Drawing on the map (drawings only visible to platoon/squad members) OR advanced map filters.

Logistics Options
Perks: Priority in Vehicle spawn queue OR extended spawn options OR squad members can spawn into an airborne galaxy piloted by a member of the squad.

Transport Options
Perks: More seats in transport vehicles (I.E. 15 seats in a Gal/Sunderer, 4 people in a harasser, etc.) OR More Nanite carrying capacity (Not to exceed 5% bonus.) OR out of combat move speed buff for infantry (stacks with adrenaline pump).

I'm sure there are more possibilities along these lines, but you get the idea. Out of combat buffs only, NO combat buffs like more health or higher vehicle ROF or any other crap like that.

[Grendalsh]

One of the common paradigms used in discussing Outfit Progression is comparing it to Player Certs. The problem with this structure is that it is finite and linear; at some point an Outfit will either be big enough, or have played long enough, to unlock everything, at which point the system loses its point.
A parallel would be if it were possible to actually push an opposing faction out of the game. Congrats, youve won.. and either the game is over, or you reset the game and start over. Planetside's appeal is that the fight never ends. So why should the Outfit Progression system be something you can complete? This is one of the failings of the WoW guild progression system; once a guild hits level 25, there's nothing left to unlock so noone cares about the system anymore.

Conversely, the original WoW Honor system would actually work well in Planetside as the basis for an Outfit Progression system. Your activity from the previous week was used to calculate your current ranking. If you didn't maintain your activity level, your ranking would decay.
This system was terrible for a personal honor ranking, because it demanded an ungodly amount of time from an individual to both acheive and maintain the highest ranks. However, for an outfit comprised of numerous people in potentially multiple timezones, in a never-ending pvp-centric massively multiplayer game, thist system works.

It would be possible for effective units to acheive and maintain high rankings regardless of outfit size, and would proivde a continuing carrot-onna-stick incentive for outfit activity - to improve effectiveness to acheive higher rankings, to maintain a ranking, or to progress on a different combat specialty.

[EVILPIG]

Even though some of us are planning to be here for years to come, it's a bit late to add perks. There should certainly not be perks that change balance numbers. I'm all for fluff, like outfit camos, decals and other cosmetics. Small outfits complain that large outfits have an advantage and want it based off of averages. That then becomes unfair for larger outfits or outfits with a steady influx of new blood. The worst part is that it will make zergfits worse and increase their need to mass recruit.

What I really wish was that the way members are obtained was different. You should not be able to just invite people in game. World of Tanks has a good method where you have to apply to the outfit via a mechanic on their webpage. If Planetside 2 had done this from the beginning you would not have inflated zergfits that are mostly comprised of random invites. That's where you really see the quality diluted. Of course, I am bias, as the 666 has never done a random invite and every one of our members applied on our website.

[EVILPIG]

I have to add that before any of this I'd rather see the ability to customize outfit features improve. Such as, adding the ability to create more ranks.