Mini-Rant - Page 3

Unknown · 2004-03-02, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by SilverLord

We will becuase the devs are more worried about high res textures than FPS optimization.

Ok, no offense bud, this isn't directed to you in particular. This is a trend I've seen alot lately and frankly it's kind of annoying. The devs work on many things at once, and there are a lot of devs who work on different things. Why do people always assume that because they did something other than *insert favorite bug fix/balance fix/performance fix here* that they aren't working on said fix? It seems that with nearly every fix (or at least less 'important' fixes) there's someone who gripes about them working on and releasing that fix instead of their fix. If your fix is at least moderatly important then you can safely bet they are at least dedicating some resources to it.

Madcow · 2004-03-02, 02:52 PM

You give them lots of credit. How many months did it take them to even address some of the multitude of infil suit bugs which have existed since pre-release? The reason that people complain is that the public face of PS (Spork and Smoke) are often hesistant to even acknowledge an issue in the game until a fix for said issue is very close to completion. Because of that there is a general feeling that they either don't know or don't care, and in either scenario the end result is a feeling that they're ignoring their fanbase. Basically, their communication skills blow.

Krinsath · 2004-03-02, 03:16 PM

Here's the point Unknown was trying to make:

Let's say there are 5 devs. There's more, but for the sake of this illustration, there's five.

They breakdown as follows:

Smoke - Idea man
2 Guys who do engine work and bug fixes
1 Guy who does textures
1 Guy who does database tweaks

Now, while there's certainly a general level of computer competence across most programmers, once you get a project of this involvement going it becomes a monster where only those who know exactly what's going on are going to work on it. For instance, the database guy is not going to go messing around with the engine because without a complete understanding, it's easy to make an unintentional mistake and cause bigger problems. In a similar vein, the guy who does textures is not going to work on the database.

Let's say Smoke comes up with a new vehicle. The design parameters are given to the engine boys, the artwork to Mr. Texture and the relevant information for tracking it given to the database guy. They each do their own thing, and in this case, are all involved in the same project.

Now, pretend that there's a bug where the database does not store inventory favorites properly if there's a Punisher loaded with AP ammo and a Frag grenade included in it. What on God's green earth is the texture guy going to do with this problem? Exactly Jack/Squat. So he goes and works on another project, let's say making new models for the vehicles that look schnazzier and allow players to identify enemy vehicles faster.

The texture guy finishes in time to get those changes into QA, the database guy is still plugging. Spork says "hey! We have new textures for vehicles!" and you guys all go "BUT MY PUNISHER FAVORITE IS STILL BROKEN!! OMGWTFBBQ!!!!111one!!!!"...IT'S BEING WORKED ON, THERE JUST ISN'T THE STAFF TO MAKE IT WORK AT THE MOMENT. The texture guy finished his project, that doesn't mean the Devs don't care about Punisher problem, it just hasn't made it into QA yet. Would you rather them develop all this stuff with people and then NOT release it because issue X, which may take another month to be fully resolved, is still being worked on? That's idiotic...get the stuff out as quick as is safe to do so.

We don't get status updates every three seconds because some issues are complex. Working in the field, the general statement you give someone who asks for an ETA is "Well, assuming nothing goes wrong...". Since most PS gamers take Spork and Smoke as sort of demi-gods and every word they utter is the immutable truth and *any* delay is obviously a conspiracy to milk the playerbase...yeah, I'd be hesitant about giving any projections about things that aren't already in the pipeline.

That's why you see random things getting "fixed" that don't seem to be that important, because the guy (or girl) who could fix such things had it come up on their list. You have to have these people doing *something* because otherwise there's no point in paying them. If you don't pay them, they leave and then when you DO need a texture guy (such as in the case of a new vehicle), then you're shafted because you have to wait for a few weeks to get applicants and hire someone and then wait for them to produce things.

Moral of the story: STFU about these strange improvements. A guy who knows how to work 3D Studio MAX like a champ isn't going to know squat about the PS engine code so he CAN'T do optimizations, even if he WANTED to. Having him sitting there twiddling his thumbs because the emphasis is elsewhere is bad business, so they give them other projects to do. These other projects sometimes finish before your issue is resolved...Grow up, sit down, shut up, and play the game (that's not directed at anyone in particular, but if you whine about the Devs doing things that aren't Issue X...if the shoe fits...).

Veteran · 2004-03-02, 03:19 PM

Once AI gets advanced enough, there will be applications that do nothing but write code.

As much as human coders fear this, it is inevitable.

Skynet is only a matter of time.

Krinsath · 2004-03-02, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Veteran

Once AI gets advanced enough, there will be applications that do nothing but write code.

As much as human coders fear this, it is inevitable.

Skynet is only a matter of time.

How very true...however, AI has yet to evolve to the point where it can actually process multi-faceted information. You can get it to excel in limited functions (chess, poker, StarCraft, etc.), but once you try and make it go beyond that limited function, it tends to fall apart. Not saying it won't happen, but it will take a while still. In the meantime, human coders will be around probably until such time as the Dev team is looking to retire.

Veteran · 2004-03-02, 03:36 PM

StarCraft? God damn it! I don't think computers were invented to zerg rush!

Adun Touradas

Krinsath · 2004-03-02, 03:37 PM

Well, the AI in that can be tweaked to the point where it is near impossible to win, same as many other games (Civilization for instance). Sometimes it involves a measure of cheating on the computers part as well.