From one Vet to another.

IceyCold · 2011-07-10, 03:22 PM

I'd like to make a post to all my fellow veterans, and hopefully to get a dialog going amongst us to get a few people thinking.

I've lurked on these forums for years and just registered today to start getting into the discussions on this forum since now more than ever it seems SOE is starting to listen to the players. But this can be both a blessing and a curse.

What we veterans remember of Planetside is a game we still love, we would not be here if we didn't. This game to me at least is the best game ever, and personally no game will ever take that title away. And as much as I want to hold on to some of the things that Planetside had I am willing to listen and try to understand the Devs decisions and choices.

But I will voice my opinion sternly. And we all should.

However let us remember that this game we love so much is coming into a new era and it must keep up with the shooters of today to survive. We as veterans MUST be able to let some things go, and be willing to embrace some of the changes to at least some extent. At the same time we need to carefully examine the things that the current market may like that Planetside 2 can go against and even plow it's own way to make it different and unique; just as it's predecessor did before it. Not everything the Devs have announced sounds good to us veterans, but that is not always bad. Change can be good, but only change where it was necessary.

This brings me to my biggest point.

We the veterans and lovers of this game; we must be both vocal advocates and at the same time avid listeners. And instead of raging about the changes ask for more information and even offer alternatives that appeal to both us and even the COD kiddies that will inevitably find their way to our beloved game. We may even be able to take these people that we seem to despise under our wing and show them what a REAL shooter is. In the end no matter what game someone played before, the moment they begin to play Planetside we should see them as our brothers; new blood is what this game needs and we as veterans should welcome them and teach them about this game we love so much.

Beta is soon, and SOE seems for the first time poised to listen and take our advice. We need to give them the best advice we can for the sake of the GAME, not for OURSELVES. I don't want this to come off as a rant but more as a bit of food for thought for those of us who may be too set in the way we think; for this game to succeed it has to evolve with the times, but it doesn't have to change completely.

Thanks guys (and gals).

xcel · 2011-07-10, 03:25 PM

HAZZZZAH!

Aractain · 2011-07-10, 03:28 PM

I have always been pro-progress. Just leave the dumb crap out (like nukes from killstreaks).

DviddLeff · 2011-07-10, 03:28 PM

Good post, exactly why I made this post earlier today:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...ad.php?t=36453

IceyCold · 2011-07-10, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

Good post, exactly why I made this post earlier today:

http://www.planetside-universe.com/f...ad.php?t=36453

I saw that post earlier Dvidd, and I made my post because many people seem to be angry that there is change at all.

I look forward to beta, and you best believe I will be constantly submitting my opinions and ideas.

I just want everyone to be open and not dismiss this game on a few problems, instead we should be trying to add our ideas and talking with the developers.

Bags · 2011-07-10, 03:33 PM

I'm all for progress, but there needs to be a good reason for change other than, "BUT COD DOES IT!".

IceyCold · 2011-07-10, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

I'm all for progress, but there needs to be a good reason for change other than, "BUT COD DOES IT!".

Absolutely, but instead of thinking of it as "But COD does it!" we should be asking "Why does it do that?"

I'm currently in College myself for Video Game development, and one of the biggest things your taught is to look at other games and constantly ask "why". And there is a good reason to do so, COD is successful as hell and it would be stupid not to look at WHY it is. You do not need to copy something to understand the basic concept of it and use it in another fashion to accomplish the same success.

If we do that we can then come up with Alternatives that accomplish the same result in the players enjoyment while still keeping the Planetside feel to that feature. Many things COD does right, are very simplistic and could be done in a much more deep and developed manner which could then be applied to Planetside 2.

That is what we need to be focusing on, is how to learn from the current market to make Planetside 2 both easy to get into for new players, and deep enough to keep them coming back.

Bags · 2011-07-10, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by IceyCold

Absolutely, but instead of thinking of it as "But COD does it!" we should be asking "Why does it do that?"

I'm currently in College myself for Video Game development, and one of the biggest things your taught is to look at other games and constantly ask "why". And there is a good reason to do so, COD is successful as hell and it would be stupid not to look at WHY it is. You do not need to copy something to understand the basic concept of it and use it in another fashion to accomplish the same success.

If we do that we can then come up with Alternatives that accomplish the same result in the players enjoyment while still keeping the Planetside feel to that feature. Many things COD does right, are very simplistic and could be done in a much more deep and developed manner which could then be applied to Planetside 2.

That is what we need to be focusing on, is how to learn from the current market to make Planetside 2 both easy to get into for new players, and deep enough to keep them coming back.

When I try to think of why COD does anything I am always stumped. Nothing in it makes sense to me.

IceyCold · 2011-07-10, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

When I try to think of why COD does anything I am always stumped. Nothing in it makes sense to me.

Well one thing for certain, COD does small scale combat fairly well. Some things like the "Super Knife Slide" are absolutely ridiculous but in actual shooter mechanics it feels very active and fluid.

We can take this and say to ourselves: "Players enjoy being able to maneuver around the battlefield quickly and the intensity of the quick combat."

Now we ask ourselves, what are Planetside's and COD's differences on the moment to moment scale in regard to this feature?

For one Planetside is much larger, so more people are shootng at you in most cases. Because of this we can assume that the 1-2 shots and your dead TTK of COD will not work. But players still want the visceral feedback of watching their bullets take down an opponent in a decent amount of time so the old Planetside TTK is too long. So now we need to find a balance. This is where the beta testing comes in. Tweak it till it's right.

Who knows, maybe with new server tech and less ping dependency we might find the Planetside TTK works perfect for Planetside 2; I am actually personally curious to see how that plays out.

Next we ask ourselves will a sprint work for Planetside 2 much like it does for COD?

And yes it could very well, as long as it is not the stupid infinite sprint that they have in COD. Planetside is a tactical game, and being able to sprint can add to that. COD is an arena game, so their sprint is much too ridiculous for PS2. So we once again tweak this mechanic, and the stamina pool it may be attached to. Maybe they could add a Cert tree for physical training which allows your player to sprint just a small bit faster, or for a little bit longer; maybe even lighter armor infantry can sprint longer than heavy armored infantry. Thus making hit and run tactics a bit more viable for the lighter guys.

All of this from a simple question: "Why do people like the gun combat in COD?"

Bags · 2011-07-10, 04:04 PM

Enhanced targeting lets you know you're doing damage. I'm fine with a sprint; surge was damn near mandatory in PS1.

IceyCold · 2011-07-10, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Enhanced targeting lets you know you're doing damage. I'm fine with a sprint; surge was damn near mandatory in PS1.

Watching a bar deplete is boring to a good many people. Honestly you have to consider the type of effect feedback has on the average player.

One of the biggest complaints I would hear from friends I tried to get into the first Planetside was "How many fucking bullets can that guy take?!?" or "This is stupid, my gun sucks. It does no damage!"

I would then have to tell them, "Once you get to BR 6 you can get an implant to see people's health. You are damaging them."

The response was almost unanimously "So I have to deal with this till I can get an upgrade to see how close I almost got to killing them with my weak gun?"

It was a valid point in their minds, they didn't get any feedback for their efforts and thus they didn't like the game. And they would not play it.

I don't mind personally being a bit more squishy and having to use cover more often if it means the game will have more subs and a more active playerbase. Plus we have to remember that one major reason Planetside 2 might not suffer from short TTK is that they are designing the game FOR that style of play. The first one was not.

Personally Bags I would have no problem if the Planetside 2 ttk is the same as the first one, like I said before with new server tech and less warping the PS TTK might work out just fine. I'm just saying I'm willing to be open to the concept and test it out in Beta.

Bags · 2011-07-10, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by IceyCold

Watching a bar deplete is boring to a good many people. Honestly you have to consider the type of effect feedback has on the average player.
11 million WoW players beg to differ. ^_^
One of the biggest complaints I would hear from friends I tried to get into the first Planetside was "How many fucking bullets can that guy take?!?" or "This is stupid, my gun sucks. It does no damage!"
I've never heard this, but it doesn't seem too unreasonable.
I would then have to tell them, "Once you get to BR 6 you can get an implant to see people's health. You are damaging them."
I think that adv targetting should just be baseline.
The response was almost unanimously "So I have to deal with this till I can get an upgrade to see how close I almost got to killing them with my weak gun?"

It was a valid point in their minds, they didn't get any feedback for their efforts and thus they didn't like the game. And they would not play it.
.

Response in red. I'm not against faster TTK, I'm against COD TTK.

LostSoul · 2011-07-10, 04:22 PM

I always hoped, and still hope, for a worthy successor to Planetside. Never have I hoped or asked for a remake of the original game.

With all its brilliance it has allot of flaws, I embrace change for it is the future.

IceyCold · 2011-07-10, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Response in red. I'm not against faster TTK, I'm against COD TTK.

11 million WoW players are playing an MMORPG, not an MMOFPS; to use that as an argument seems rather silly so I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. 11 million WoW players also like that a high level player can not be killed by a player even 5 levels under them, should we also take this to mean PS2 should do the same?

I have also said in every single post I am against a COD TTK so I don't know why you seem to keep bringing that up in reference to my discussion with you? I don not think anyone would want a COD TTK in Planetside 2 because it would be down right ridiculous. Not to mention negate the different armor types completely.

Bags · 2011-07-10, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by IceyCold

11 million WoW players are playing an MMORPG, not an MMOFPS; to use that as an argument seems rather silly so I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. 11 million WoW players also like that a high level player can not be killed by a player even 5 levels under them, should we also take this to mean PS2 should do the same?

I have also said in every single post I am against a COD TTK so I don't know why you seem to keep bringing that up in reference to my discussion with you? I don not think anyone would want a COD TTK in Planetside 2 because it would be down right ridiculous. Not to mention negate the different armor types completely.

The comment was rather tongue-in-cheek. Though a lot of people did quit PS for WoW.