continent/landmass size thoughts

Stardouser · 2012-03-23, 10:50 AM

The information I've seen on continent size is that they will be 8km X 8km.

Now, I know PS1 was continent based like that, and a lot of people are attached to it. But I'm curious if it was ever considered to have larger landmasses than that, perhaps even one large landmass, perhaps something 40km X 40km or more or less depending on how many people are expected per server? And, independently of whether it was considered or not, what would you guys think about such a thing?

Or perhaps, even, if the game world had a larger main landmass surrounded by smaller continents?

My principal inspiration for this thought was seeing the description of PS2 continents as having a foothold for each empire on each continent, with no continent lock and I thought, well, instead of that, why not have one huge continent with each empire having its own starting area?

EDIT: I will add this about my player per base spawn limit:

OK, guys, I wanted to give an example of my idea for player per base spawn limits; only put it in graphics. Obviously I am NO artist. This is a simplified mockup of a map that has 2 factions, and this is how it is at the start of the war, each side has 42 bases. Yes, this is one mega continent. You can assume that one faction's uncap base is somewhere deep to the left and the other deep to the right.

Now, my idea was this: OK, let's assume a server is for 1500 players, 750 per faction. NOTE: These numbers and the numbers that follow are examples only, they are of course to be tweaked. Continuing: Each base can spawn a maximum of 50 players. Do you see the small gray box around the single red base? That's the target. See how 2nd line of Blue bases is 10km back from the front line? The grey box around the 6 bases denotes the 6 bases I presume are close enough to participate in the battle, I am assuming that people from bases more than 10km away will want to attack closer targets.

And the 6 red bases in the grey box are the bases where the defending team in this particular attack will pull their defenders from. Let's just say that Blue spawns 50 X 6=300 players at these 6 bases and attacks the target. That leaves 450 players to either attack, or defend elsewhere along the line.

Let's say Blue captures a deep spear into Red territory, a line of 3 bases. They will only be able to then pull 150 respawns from nearby without going too far back. Also, think about this: At the start, you have 750 players for 42 bases, that's an average of 18 players per base. As you penetrate into enemy territory, your own territory becomes vulnerable to enemy raids that sneak past your guys into your back bases. Some should be capturable without a line of supply and some will not.

Anyway, you can take this explanation as both me advocating for one megacontinent per server AND an explanation of my "50 players max per base spawning" idea. I believe that limiting spawns per base in this fashion will encourage, but not mandate, that teams spread out. It will also curtail the ability of one empire to drive another back to their uncap. Once you drive the enemy back to the point where they only have 10 or less bases left, they are freed from the 50 per base spawn limit - this gives them the opportunity to repel en masse further rape.

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Knocky · 2012-03-23, 10:57 AM

Higby said that the conts are hand crafted and they do not have the resources to do what you are asking.

I would rather have a couple of conts that are awesome then one huge computer generated land mass.

Goku · 2012-03-23, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Knocky

Higby said that the conts are hand crafted and they do not have the resources to do what you are asking.

I would rather have a couple of conts that are awesome then one huge computer generated land mass.

Agreed. There is only going to be a few at launch right? Even if it isn't all the ones from the original right away the fights are going to be way more epic due to more time being spent on each one.

Eyeklops · 2012-03-23, 11:02 AM

There has been no indication that they couldn't make larger continents once cash starts rolling in. I assume they are trying to adhere to a "launch" budget and are only accounting for three 8km x 8km to start.

Knocky · 2012-03-23, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Goku

Agreed. There is only going to be a few at launch right? Even if it isn't all the ones from the original right away the fights are going to be way more epic due to more time being spent on each one.

Last I heard the other is a frozen wasteland like Ceryshen that is a city in ruins.

Stardouser · 2012-03-23, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Knocky

Higby said that the conts are hand crafted and they do not have the resources to do what you are asking.

I would rather have a couple of conts that are awesome then one huge computer generated land mass.

Well, I have to admit I was also inspired by WW2 OL in asking that as well.

That said, is the resources you speak of the resources to design such a world, or to run such a large game world with servers once it is designed?

If it's just a design resource concern, and let's just say we ended up with 6 hand designed continents...they could just smoosh them all together 2 deep and 3 long and that would be 48 km long, 16km deep. Then just assign the home bases of each empire to wherever they belong!

Definitely an insane thinking process that leads me to these ideas but who knows, someone else might be able to massage it into something less insane.

Hell, it wouldn't bother me if they took their 6 continents, smooshed it together to make a mega continent, and surrounded it by another copy of each individual continent for a total of 7 different continents you can travel to, one of course being a megacontinent.

Eyeklops · 2012-03-23, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Well, I have to admit I was also inspired by WW2 OL in asking that as well.

That said, is the resources you speak of the resources to design such a world, or to run such a large game world with servers once it is designed?

If it's just a design resource concern, and let's just say we ended up with 6 hand designed continents...they could just smoosh them all together 2 deep and 3 long and that would be 48 km long, 16km deep. Then just assign the home bases of each empire to wherever they belong!

Definitely an insane thinking process that leads me to these ideas but who knows, someone else might be able to massage it into something less insane.

I think Matt has targets for the average population density of a map. AFAIK, it is not known publicly if the the servers can handle the number of players required to meet population density target in a 16km x 16km area. I think the dev's will have a better handle on what some of the map size limits will be during stress testing in beta.

Boomzor · 2012-03-23, 11:13 AM

Do we really want something twice the size of Cyssor?

That was quite big enough for me as it was, imagine now that every 500m [<-arbitrary] or so has a capture point to contend for.

I'd say more continents rather than bigger. Hell, link them in various ways to spice up the strategical meta game, and just all round variation in themes and surroundings.

Goku · 2012-03-23, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Knocky

Last I heard the other is a frozen wasteland like Ceryshen that is a city in ruins.

That sounds fun. I thought I heard Amerish maybe coming in as well, I think there was maybe 3-4 at launch someone said somewhere.

Stardouser · 2012-03-23, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

I think Matt has targets for the average population density of a map. The servers might not be able to handle the poulation density target with 16km x 16km area. I think the dev's will have a better handle on what some of the map size limits will be during stress testing in beta.

Well, my vision of such large landmasses is not that there would be fighting going on all over them, causing a density problem...in fact, quite the opposite. There were be 1 or 2 front lines in the middle of it depending on how the factions fight each other, the true purpose of the large landmass is to create a large area that's behind the front lines in order to give people who want to run special ops behind the lines missions to take out resources more stuff to do, more strategy.

In other words, if a single continent is supposed to have 2000 players and a megacontinent is 3 times bigger, that doesn't mean it has to have 6000 players fighting on it. It would still have around 2000 players fighting along the front lines of the continent BUT you might have up to another 500 running around behind the lines doing their thing to sabotage resources behind the lines, which can't be captured due to location but can have mayhem inflicted upon them.

Eyeklops · 2012-03-23, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Well, my vision of such large landmasses is not that there would be fighting going on all over them, causing a density problem...in fact, quite the opposite. There were be 1 or 2 front lines in the middle of it depending on how the factions fight each other, the true purpose of the large landmass is to create a large area that's behind the front lines in order to give people who want to run special ops behind the lines missions to take out resources more stuff to do, more strategy.

In other words, if a single continent is supposed to have 2000 players and a megacontinent is 3 times bigger, that doesn't mean it has to have 6000 players fighting on it. It would still have around 2000 players fighting along the front lines of the continent BUT you might have up to another 500 running around behind the lines doing their thing to sabotage resources behind the lines, which can't be captured due to location but can have mayhem inflicted upon them.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Matt has said a few times he doesn't want lots of open, unused space like in PS1(paraphrased). Also, the 8km sq maps might still be big enough to do what your asking, we won't know how big the maps really "feel" until beta. IMO how large a map feels is related to how far your average line of sight can go and how detailed the the map is. An 8km x 8km city block map will "feel" larger than 8km sq of flat desert.

Stardouser · 2012-03-23, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

Correct me if I am wrong, but Matt has said a few times he doesn't want lots of open, unused space like in PS1 (paraphrased).

Ah, if that's the case then I am in disagreement with their vision for this part. Or...maybe I am, since we don't have specifics at hand. I understand not wanting too much dead space, but there's got to be some unused areas or you can't have behind the lines missions.

and of course, what does unused mean? If a tech center 3km behind the line is letting you spawn your tanks, that's not really unused just because there's not a battle going on for it at all times. Especially if your team is occasionally having to repair it from spec op attacks.

Alduron · 2012-03-23, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

The information I've seen on continent size is that they will be 8km X 8km.

I could have sworn T-Ray or Higby said somewhere in a video that the continents would be 8 Square Kilometers, which would be 4km x 4km, not 8km x 8km... I'm positive someone here will correct me with link if I am wrong.

::EDIT::
Can't find them talking about it in the video, but It looks like they might have said 8 Kilometers Square, which would indeed be 8x8.

RNFB · 2012-03-23, 01:54 PM

I just want all the original continents to return at some point, retaining their same general shape, but if they need to be smaller so be it.

Esamir and Cyssor were the best!

Raymac · 2012-03-23, 03:32 PM

1 massive seemless world would be amazing, but I just don't know how technically feasible that would be. I would guess that Planetside 2 is already pushing the limits. Also, while bigger is better, in PS1 there was alot of unused space on the continents. If you spread that out even more I think you reach a point of diminishing returns. I think they need to strike a balance of a golidlocks zone where it is massive, but not too massive where it feels spread out like North Dakota.