Alternative capture model - the reverse LLU.

EVILPIG · 2012-04-12, 01:08 PM

The LLU mechanic has been brought up and though the term LLU is no longer appropriate, due to the lack of lattice, I will refer to it as LLU for the sake of recognition.

I was thinking of a couple of ways a LLU could be used for captures. Both are reversing the concept in that instead of stealing a LLU, you'd be delivering it to the enemy base to install it.

1. The first method would be pretty simple. All you'd have to do is take the LLU to the enemy base and install it to gain ownership. It's pretty much that simple, but perhaps not that simple to do. The console that you would have to install the LLU into would be deep in the base and would require you to fight your way in and maintain control of the room. Once you delivered the LLU, it would be placed into the receiver and would take about 30 seconds to install. The LLU would be an object that could be carried by players and if they are killed they drop it. When on the ground or or while it is sitting in the receiver, the LLU can be destroyed by damaging it with weaponry. Perhaps, a single C4 or rocket, or a good amount of small arms fire. Once the LLU is fully installed, the base is captured.

This method would not be used for all bases, perhaps just one type of base. The LLU could be created at any friendly base.

2. The second method does not rely on the LLU to capture the base, but the LLU would be necessary to bring a base up to full power. Basically, a base would be captured through whatever capture mechanic is in game, but that would only give you physical ownership of the base. Any spawn points you own would still function, but you would not receive the base's benefit or function until the LLU is installed. Like Tech, Amp, Bio, etc. In other words, you'd have physical possession of the base, but it would not be "coded" to your empire until you installed your LLU into it's system.

There is some fun gameplay around fights that revolve around the delivery and interception of LLUs and modules. We could call it "Facility Operating System" or "FoS". Though I am completely open to suggestions about the name or even the functionality. Obvious things to consider are things like whether you own adjacent territories and how this could affect how long it would take.

Eighm · 2012-04-12, 01:15 PM

Somebody set up us the LLU!

The first option seems like it would add some variety into base capturing, but where would the LLU spawn from? If it's coming from an adjacent base I would like it to be a little bit more resilient against small arms/rocket fire, otherwise you just end up taxiing the LLU from your base to the enemy base over and over without anything getting done.

Metalsheep · 2012-04-12, 01:23 PM

That is a pretty interesting idea. I think it could work, but if the fighting or facility captures work anything like Planetside 1, the "Hack" or the "FoS Device" wouldn't even be started or brought to the base until well after the spawns and gen was down.

Though, at least in having to transport the FoS Device another empire can try to stop it. Though i think it should take a little longer than 30 seconds to install and take over the base. Maybe like 1 or 2 minits to give defenders a sporting chance at stopping the process should it be installed in a hot base. I've been on several defense missions where we went to the Enemys base where the LLU was supposed to go, and we would hold their own CC to stop them from capping the LLU. But almost every time it gets thwarted by some Agile with Surge who snatches the LLU and just touches the CC console because he basically warped the whole way through our defense.

EVILPIG · 2012-04-12, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Eighm

Somebody set up us the LLU!

The first option seems like it would add some variety into base capturing, but where would the LLU spawn from? If it's coming from an adjacent base I would like it to be a little bit more resilient against small arms/rocket fire, otherwise you just end up taxiing the LLU from your base to the enemy base over and over without anything getting done.

That's one of the challenges. At the most basic level, you're trying to force your LLU, or FOS, down their throat. If they stop it, you'll have to get another. It's a different kind of fight.

Metalsheep · 2012-04-12, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

That's one of the challenges. At the most basic level, you're trying to force your LLU, or FOS, down their throat. If they stop it, you'll have to get another. It's a different kind of fight.

I'm sorry, but i don't think its appropriate that we be talking about Forcing our LLU down other peoples throats.

The problem would be finding a happy-medium with how vulnerable the FOS is. If its too easy to kill, a FOS base will never get capped under fire. If its too hard to kill, it wont be able to be stopped reasonably.

Does it compleatly get destroyed if the vehicle its in dies? Does the carrier have to die before it becomes vulnerable? Can you kill the FOS while someone is in possession of it?

**Malorn** · 2012-04-12, 01:48 PM

LLU can very easily come back in any capture model.

Base could spawn one LLU every X minutes, and running the LLU to another facility or foothold adds a set chunk to your ticket count for the capture.

Only it could work for either side, making it more interesting.

Downside with LLU is that it could lead to faster capture times than expected. That can be adjusted by lowering the value of the LLU itself or by slowing down the ticket accrual at the facility such that the LLU capture is factored in.

EVILPIG · 2012-04-12, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

LLU can very easily come back in any capture model.

Base could spawn one LLU every X minutes, and running the LLU to another facility or foothold adds a set chunk to your ticket count for the capture.

Only it could work for either side, making it more interesting.

Downside with LLU is that it could lead to faster capture times than expected. That can be adjusted by lowering the value of the LLU itself or by slowing down the ticket accrual at the facility such that the LLU capture is factored in.

Certainly anything is possible and I expect that we will see different capture methods in game. These are good points and the beauty of it all, is that it is wide open!

Fenrys · 2012-04-12, 02:10 PM

There was a similar mechanic in Unreal Tournament 3.

Your 'foothold' base would spawn a floating, glowing orb. If you could bring the orb to a nearby capture point, and destroy the armored 'thingy' the other side had installed there, it would be captured instantly instead of having to hold the capture point for 30 seconds while you build your team's 'thingy' - the orb made the 'thingy' that signifies ownership spawn instantly.

If you brought your orb near a capture point that was already owned by your team, it put up an invincible shield around your team's 'thingy', so the other team would need to kill the orb carrier, then touch the orb to send it back to the foothold, and then destroy the armored 'thingy' and build their own to replace it. It prevented long-range sniping of your 'thingy' that would force that capture point to go neutral and cut off the link it provided to forward capture points.

In order to win the map, you had to control the enemy foothold, which brought down a shield that at other times prevents you from harming the big armored McGuffin inside the foothold which is the objective of the map.

In PS2, there could be 1 LLU per continent that spawns in each teams sanctuary. You could either use it offensively to lower capture timers, or defensively to increase capture timers.

Each facility would have an unshielded LLU room where any team could install their LLU, and the effects of having it installed would effect the capture timers for every other area inside the base.
Or
Each capture-able area of a base would have a zone outside of it's shielded area that was responsive to the presence of an LLU. The LLU would need to be brought to each individual capture point to be effective.
Or
As Malorn suggested, it could be a one-time boost. Install an LLU into a socket just outside a capture point to get a timer reduction, and then the LLU decons and a new one spawns at your foothold.

TheRagingGerbil · 2012-04-12, 02:13 PM

Something similar to the Goliath on the Assault Lines maps for Battlefield 2142 would be badass. The team has to escort the capture vehicle into the heart of the enemy facility. I could play that!

Metalsheep · 2012-04-12, 02:21 PM

Now that i think about it, it reminds me of Assault from Halo. Bring the bomb into the enemies base and arm it before they kill you or do the same to your own base.

headcrab13 · 2012-04-12, 02:53 PM

Great idea EVIL, I think this would fit really well into PS2. Having some mini-game type gameplay and special objectives to compliment and break up the standard fighting would be welcomed.

DviddLeff · 2012-04-12, 03:48 PM

Problem with LLU based methods is that it all comes down to one player - we saw players take it in the opposite direction to the target, either on purpose or due to stupidity.

Despite this it would certainly make for interesting game play, especially if it could take a chunk off capture times.

Soothsayer · 2012-04-12, 03:57 PM

I'd like to see a reverse LLU type capture with objects that appear within the contested base and are related to base functioning.

So you would have several objects spawned upon the initiation of the hack. These objects can be plugged into the CC (if such a thing still exists) which will cut down on the time capture the facility, while at the same time denying a capability of the base to the defenders.

Alternatively, you could take the scale to be a bit more on the macro side and have multiple LLU's spawn in the outlying hexes. If those LLU's are capped those hexes will flip once the base cap goes through. Active LLU hex defenders would be credited for a defense on all related hex defenses, attackers get base cap XP from all related hex captures.

This would focus combat onto this facility above and beyond normal bases where only one hex is at stake. I'd really like to see a wide variety of capture mechanics though.

Aurmanite · 2012-04-12, 04:21 PM

This is similar to Unreal's Bombing Run.

And...Football (Murican)

CTF has always been my favorite game mode in shooters. I'm down with the reverse LLU.

Gonefshn · 2012-04-12, 04:46 PM

I really like the idea a lot as a mechanic especially since it will add more variety to the gameplay.

I have one concern though, which, interestingly enough could actually end up being a good thing but I can see it more easily turning out badly.

In the orginal PS you had a ton of players in one map and it worked because in most cases people were spread out over a huge area. I like this because I feel having a large spread for the fight does more to support a feeling of an epic battle than a clusterfuck of 100 people in a small area does. In PS2 your going to have probably more than twice the number of people in the map at once. Something like a single LLU could potentially bring WAY too many players into the same exact spot on the map. Sure, the carnage that it would cause could be fun, I mean how can we really tell now? But, I can easily see frustrating (If not laggy) situations with way too many players all converging on the LLU at once and creating a clusterf*ck that goes nowhere.

I am all for the LLU idea but I'd love to see if anyone has any ideas how it could be done in a way that keeps a nice spread on the battle and doesn't act like a magnet that drags every player to one point. I don't really have any ideas it's a tough call anyone agree with me though? or do you guys think the clusterf*ck would be fun?