Interesting screen from Chinaside2

[Kran De Loy]

Originally Posted by Shogun

you realized that the flying magrider was a bug? it was confirmed by the devs already. and i guess it was no coincidence, that the display-cable disconnected a few seconds after this silly ufo bug showed up on the demo

I actually liked the idea that the hover distance could change between a meter or two so there would be some low rock outcroppings that we could float over that would just piss off a Prowler and Vanguard.

Originally Posted by Erendil

Pretty much what I was thinking too. Although I think I'd give the Mag the best acceleration to fit in with its top ranked maneuverability. IMO the Prowler's gear ratio would make it a little slower to get up to speed but once it gets there it can really move.

Gotta say tho that if those graphs are right I'm a little irritated about the Mag's armour. We were told earlier this year that the Prowler was the fastets tank but that the Mag had more armour to make up for it. Now that doesn't appear to be the case.

IMO the fastest tank should have the weakest armour. Unless the Mag significantly outdamages the Prowler up close, all the Prowler would need to do is run straight for any Mag it sees, since the Mag can't outrun it and can't take as much punishment.

You gotta think tho that the Mag has the advantage of ALWAYS having it's frontal armor facing the enemy even when retreating, imo.

[kaffis]

Originally Posted by Erendil

IMO the fastest tank should have the weakest armour. Unless the Mag significantly outdamages the Prowler up close, all the Prowler would need to do is run straight for any Mag it sees, since the Mag can't outrun it and can't take as much punishment.

But without knowing how the Prowler and Magrider's armor distribution compares, I don't think it's worth getting alarmed, yet.

It seems likely that the Magrider's low armor rating in this chart refers to overall armor, and that in a tank-to-tank duel, the Magrider will effectively out-armor the Prowler since it will be capable of maneuvering to strike the Prowler's flanks while using its strafing abilities that complement its forward-mounted turret to ensure that its flanks are not being struck by the Prowler.

Whereas the chart above is indicating that the Magrider's flanks are likely weaker, causing it to be more vulnerable to airborne and incidental fire.

[Kran De Loy]

Agreed, but to me running it through my mind the Prowler's added speed would at least be able to keep it's sides to any opponent. It's speed would enable it to reposition or keep a steady distance versus almost any target quickly enough to prevent it from being flanked.

Vannie would have much more of a problem with this because they wouldn't be able to keep the distance between itself and the other MBT's so it's capable of taking much more punishment then either of the others. Logically it could turn in place to keep it's front forward, but versus multiple targets I believe it would be easily flanked.

Mag rider can speed around the battle field and keep the distance it desires between itself and it's target almost as well as the Prowler, not because it has almost as much speed as a Prowler but more to do with the one the added benefit that it is the only one capable of lateral movement.

Heh, I just had an image of a 4 Vannie squad maneuvering so that they'd form a perfect square protecting eachother's rear armor completely like a stack of Legos.

[Xyntech]

Hopefully the tanks are well balanced enough that none of them ever have such an excessive advantage that the other sides tanks can't do anything to stop them, but clearly the three tanks will be advantaged/disadvantaged in certain terrain.

The Magrider will be the best long range tank when there is cover to hide behind, due to it's direct fire weapon and ability to easily strafe in and out of cover while keeping it's strongest armor facing it's target.

The Vanguard will be the best tank in the open plains due to the fact that it can dish out the most damage and absorb the most damage in a straight up brawl.

The Prowler will be the best ambush tank in large numbers if they can sneak up behind dense cover, being able to have large swarms quickly outflank the enemy and then get away before reinforcements can do anything about it.

We'll just have to playtest to see how they stack in in a real world scenario with more complex and varied conditions.

[Malorn]

Originally Posted by Erendil

Gotta say tho that if those graphs are right I'm a little irritated about the Mag's armour. We were told earlier this year that the Prowler was the fastets tank but that the Mag had more armour to make up for it. Now that doesn't appear to be the case.

IMO the fastest tank should have the weakest armour. Unless the Mag significantly outdamages the Prowler up close, all the Prowler would need to do is run straight for any Mag it sees, since the Mag can't outrun it and can't take as much punishment.

I think we need to consider what "armor" means in PS2. Armor in PS1 meant raw HP. In PS2 I think all tanks have the same health but their "armor" reduces the damage they take per shot, but depending on location.

So when it shows the Prowler having more armor than the Magrider, you must also consider that armor has different values on different parts of the tank. We know front armor is the strongest, and rear armor is the weakest.

Consider a tank vs tank standoff. The Magrider is essentially always going to be facing its target (it has to due to the fixed cannon). This means its a lot easier for the mag to protect itself while maneuvering around against the other tank.

The prowler & mag have to move & turn to keep their backside protected which leaves their side armor a lot more exposed. You are less likely to be shooting a prowler in the front armor as you are a Mag, and while overall the Prowler might have more armor, the effective armor of the Mag and prowler may be the same when you factor in the advantages that maneuverability gets you with respect to different armor positions.

Further, the mag can enhance this benefit even more by adding front armor as a defensive upgrade.

Long-range unless moving tangental speed has little value compared to maneuverability. The mags can do the old side-strafe trick and moving backwards while keeping front armor and maximizing their accuracy advantage. Snipe snipe snipe, while the only thing the prowler can do is close distance and take the hits.

I think in that respect maneuverability forces it to have the lowest base armor because maneuverability increases effective armor.

[Tachyr]

I'm surprised they haven't included suspension/dampers as a metric for tanks as it is imperative to have a stable platform to shoot from.

Buzzing around like a hornet in the Prowler is going to be pretty pointless unless you can actually hit something. Speed means nothing without control.

The Magrider already has a benefit from being a hover type vehicle but I think there should be ways to improve the dampening/suspension for all type of vehicles.

[kaffis]

Originally Posted by Tachyr

I'm surprised they haven't included suspension/dampers as a metric for tanks as it is imperative to have a stable platform to shoot from.

Buzzing around like a hornet in the Prowler is going to be pretty pointless unless you can actually hit something. Speed means nothing without control.

The Magrider already has a benefit from being a hover type vehicle but I think there should be ways to improve the dampening/suspension for all type of vehicles.

I suspect that's precisely why it's not being included -- because it will be highly variable based on the way you equip your tank, and because the 3 tanks don't cover distinctly different ranges in the spectrum.

[Tachyr]

Originally Posted by kaffis

I suspect that's precisely why it's not being included -- because it will be highly variable based on the way you equip your tank, and because the 3 tanks don't cover distinctly different ranges in the spectrum.

Do we know that the tank ride will be altered based on load out?
I must have missed that

[kaffis]

Originally Posted by Tachyr

Do we know that the tank ride will be altered based on load out?
I must have missed that

No, but it seems like a really good candidate for sidegrade tweaks.

[moosepoop]

i cant wait to take the wanu tank for a drive.