Gameplay: Question/Concern/Idea regarding outfit certification trees - Page 2

Talek Krell · 2012-04-25, 05:31 PM

I don't think I like the idea of people being able to effectively switch their outfit specialization whenever they like. Part of the idea was having outfits be specialized in and known for specific things. Being able to switch specialization takes it from being a choice to being upgrades that you get based on time and outfit size.

psychobilly · 2012-04-25, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

I don't think I like the idea of people being able to effectively switch their outfit specialization whenever they like. Part of the idea was having outfits be specialized in and known for specific things. Being able to switch specialization takes it from being a choice to being upgrades that you get based on time and outfit size.

Large outfits can still break up in game and form multiple outfits. They will still be in the same voice comms and they can still kick members over to the other outfit when they need to.

Switching specialization is going to be in either way. But I prefer a more elegant solution than forcing outfits to (virtually) break up.

Lonehunter · 2012-04-25, 09:42 PM

I almost feel like I'm the only person who heard it, but I'm positive Higby mentioned having a fix for this issue. To me the problem of an outfit not being able to spec multiple specialties, and therefor wanting to split into multiple outfits, would just be too ridiculous to even make it to beta.

The other problem is overloading outfits with customization. If every outfit has air/tank/infantry bonuses then what sets them apart?

It will be interesting to see how they handle the in between. Maybe you can only choose 2 specialties, maybe there's a maximum of certs you can pick in these trees, who knows

Toppopia · 2012-04-25, 11:40 PM

As long as there is a huge shiny red reset button for the specializations then all will be solved. And maybe have a time of 1 reset per week or something so it can't be spammed as a counter tool for a current/upcoming battle.

Talek Krell · 2012-04-26, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by psychobilly

Large outfits can still break up in game and form multiple outfits. They will still be in the same voice comms and they can still kick members over to the other outfit when they need to.

I realize that, and I'm not saying we should be trying to prevent it in some way. At the same time though, I don't see why it should be facilitated. Allow switching outfit specialties to be a logistical headache. If people want to split themselves into a group of outfits and try to shuffle people between outfits or between outfit divisions based on what they're doing that hour so that they always have the maximum bonus then let it be a pain in the ass for them to do so.

My concern is basically what Lonehunter said:

Originally Posted by Lonehunter

The other problem is overloading outfits with customization. If every outfit has air/tank/infantry bonuses then what sets them apart?

The point of outfit specialization was to allow outfits to be good at and even known for specific things by having them choose an area of specialty. Allowing them to change their choice at will defeats the purpose.

Noivad · 2012-04-26, 05:01 PM

Good read Good ideas. My Take - 18 year Military vet that worked with all the USA Branches at one time or another. I was assigned to two units, and attached to several and in all those years I never heard the word Outfit till I played PS1. I digress.

Outfit / Unit Certification control should be limited to the Outfit Leader. PS2 is a Military game and there should not be anything allowed in game like voting to do something like they have in EVE online. A Military Unit / Outfit is NOT a democracy. Do you really want to be lead by someone who has to ask you to vote on something before doing it. Do you really want to play a game where the leader asks what do you want to do. A good leader knows what needs to be done, organizes his people quickly, and goes and does it. Most good PS1 players want to get into the fight in a meaningful way right now, not wait on people who should have been ready to go in the first place. I suspect PS2 will be the same.

I have always led a diverse group of players who wanted to drive tanks, or fly planes, or play infantry. My Unit did those things at the the times the battle dictated. So if there was a lot of Air out there we did ADA. If we needed to push a base we got tanks. When we went into a base we were Infantry. Most Outfits were like that.

I led a managed Outfit not a do what you want to outfit, and we do not allow solo player in it. We kick them.

But now with specialized Outfits, the guys I played with are not sure if they want to be in my Outfit because I am leaning towards a Light Infantry Outfit, not a tank Outfit. Some guys just like to play heavy Infantry, so how are they gonna get up on top of a building with us if there are no jet packs with them. How will they fit. They won't, and so a social network will be destroyed.

And what if the battle needs tanks. We can still get them I think, but they will NOT be as good as the ones on the battle field if the Outfit we are up against has specialized in tanks. No balance there. So what would be the point. To get farmed?

So Let Outfit Leader have the option to select the type of Units he wants to manage. to put in the elements he wants to cert. To be as diverse as he wants to be. To grow the outfit as big as he wants to through certification. As an OL I would like to have dedicated Infantry Squads, I would Like to have dedicated Tanks Squads, and I would like to have dedicated Air Squads.

But not all of my people play every day - actually most are not even subbing PS 1 now. My Outfit had its Hard Core 7 day a week 12 hr a day players, but we had a lot of casual players during the week, or weekend warriors. If you make the cert tree to strick, then you will be hurting the casual ones. Especially with outfits that have people on 24 hours a day because they have players from all over the world. Unless you don't want that.

Yes other people who cert like I have the Outfit certed will migrate towards me, thats true, but I'm picky, I don't take just anyone. And now with Outfit specialized certification I not going to take the people who don't cert the way I need them to cert to be the best Light Infantry type. hmmm does that mean I don't get a gal pilot to move my people around. Maybe I have to pay resourses to a transportation Outfit to move my unit. Really. We were told it was a very extensive training tree for gal pilots.

BTW I never liked the Gal / AMS Idea - I think it takes an element away from PS2 that a lot of people liked to do. An now my airborne troops are grounded because if i do have my gal pilot get another one, to try another air drop, the troops on the ground lose the AMS - what a trade off.

And with Outfit Certification - I guess with my outfit, if its light, the guys will only be able to go into classes that fit my outfit as well. Why would I want my guys certed with tank if I need them to class Infantry roles.

Thats my take -

Oh one more thing. The people SOG and DOG knew it was us. We killed them over and over again. We may not have been the most famous Like DT or GOTR, but we were effective in PS1, And when we did it people knew it was us.

Talek Krell · 2012-04-27, 02:17 AM

Right, I think you guys are being crippled a bit by the idea that tanks/planes/infantry/whatever that don't have the full outfit certs won't be worth pulling. If this is the case then there are underlying balance issues with the game.

If you want to be a do everything group then grab the general purpose certs. If you want to be a specialized group then network with other specialized groups or, god forbid, accept that you may not have the best of every single thing at every possible time. Allowing an outfit to specialize in everything is no longer specialization, it's just a rich get richer scheme for the largest outfits that can pull in XP the most quickly.