F2P Discussion and Buying Value

ParisTeta · 2012-06-17, 05:17 PM

So first, this is not good vs bad debate. For me, overall it is good. I want to discuss something else.

Let me get direct to thinking:
When i like this game, i should support it, i support it with money. Check.
I go to the store, look what is aviable, right now we have: Weapon Unlocks, Skins and Booster.

Weapons...can be unlocked via ingame, and i may even don`t want another gun, because the standart model is fine anyway (side grade). So nothing on the long run and definitly nothing for bulk buy (more later with the skins).

Boosters, yes handy i guess, main source of income, but after a time i have every major thing, and the rest ist just getting it complete.

Skins, well really skins are fun, but do i really want pay 4 dollar (price pulled out of a dead TR) for a zebra skin (example).

A full price game is around 60 bugs right? So for 15 Skins i would pay the full price of a new game. 1 Dollar skin? Well 60 to reach full price.

All that sounds like a bad bargain to me, weapons maybe, but when there a few selected, i use the ingame resource, Boosters, may come in handy, depending on the level speed, and skins? I can`t really say how i should do that, yes skins look cool but it is such a bad bargain.

Some people will say, well on less coffee this week for my new skin, but coffee has an effect, the skin not so much, and in the long run, i want to buy often, i only worsen my situation. I buyed 120 Skins for 120 $ ? Kewl you bought Mass Effect 6 and Diablo 4 for that, two whole games.

So how can the shop be used to really sell value?

One Idee is animation, they are hard and costly to make, but just emotes is plain stupid (hello STO), how about getting in the seats/and out of vehicle animation, which would cost 10-15$ something like that. Behind that there is a real working effort, i could honour with money, but a skin which is made in what? 15 Minutes by the expierenced artist.

What is your Idea?

P.S.: I really consider leaving some money when i don`t like the monthly subscription, if i enjoy that game so much, but i don`t wanna feel robbed.

zomg · 2012-06-17, 05:32 PM

You could look at the skin-thing from the opposite perspective as well. If the game was subscription based like the old one, you would still be paying even if you had unlocked all the skins you wanted.

And even if it wasn't subscription based, you would still be paying 60 bucks anyway, and you wouldn't be getting any extras necessarily (ie. if the game had say 15 skins less than it has now - hypothetically speaking of course).

So in that way, I don't think it's that much of a value for money thing (you're buying for items that don't even exist, and ones you don't really even own - how is that value?), but more a thing of paying because you are having fun, or paying because you want to support the devs.

Team Fortress 2 is the only F2P game I've ever paid for. I have spent maybe 50 eur in the Valve store buying junk like keys (for the unfamiliar, to open in game "secret crates" which contain random items) or a hat. This was of course over the span of several months so monthly it doesn't add up to that much.

I always considered it more like a random "I'll just buy this for fun" thing - like I'd go to the store and buy a bag of chips just to enjoy them whilst watching a movie. Or, like going to the go kart track to drive a few laps.

Turdicus · 2012-06-17, 07:05 PM

The devs have already said that it would take a very long time to get all of the certs in the game, even while using boosters. And that is without them adding new content to the game, which they regularly will, for many years. Aside from boosters there are the skins and weapons, various utility items, implants, armor and vehicle decorations and modifications, and probably other stuff that arent confirmed yet like extra loadout save slots.

Thats a lot of stuff, and if it will take years to complete everything in the game (potentially) then I don't think you need to worry about having a shortage of things to buy. The f2p model is actually incredibly successful so far.

Bags · 2012-06-17, 07:06 PM

I think buying optional skins with money and getting the game for free is already incredible value for the consumer (us). Though if you don't think so and if there's anyone else who thinks it's a rip off, then maybe their marketing hasn't done a well enough job of communicating said value to you as the consumer. Then again, we have no idea about the cash shop prices at the moment so there's no reason to expect said communication to have happened already.

There's plenty of things of value they can sell; server transfer, name changes, faction transfers, additional character slots, character recustomization, additional loadouts, custom outfit logos that have to be approved, outfit name changes, in addition to cosmetics and side grades.

They could also offer many different ways to purchase/own the content through the store. For example, a sidegrade B to gun A could cost $3 to have forever, $1 for a month, or $0.50 to try it out for a week before deciding you want to drop an additional $3 to have the gun unlocked forever.

All of this is in addition to the optional subscription model they may have in place, and we have no idea what will be unlocked with that.

I guess what I'm saying is wait and see what the prices are before you complain about lack of value in SOE's offerings.

Xyntech · 2012-06-17, 09:09 PM

This really depends on what their pricing and subscription models turn out to be, and how many things there are to purchase.

If they have a ton of skins available, but give subscribers the option to have a free rental of up to 2 or 3 skins each month, a subscriber could either keep rotating a few skins to use for free, keep getting a free rental on the same skins every month, or purchase one of the skins permanently from the cash shop if they didn't want to keep renting the same ones, or if they wanted to have more than 3 skins at a time.

Also, there will be a ton of unlocks. Sure you can unlock the core stuff, but I think there will also be a lot of interest in unlocking some of the deeper stuff as well, which will take a lot more time. Maybe you wont try to unlock every deep thing in classes or areas that you don't play much, but if they are planning for it to take a year to unlock everything for one class in normal play, that's probably going to still take several months even when boosted, so I think boosting players will probably take at least a year or more to unlock everything they want.

Having a person buying boosts or subscribing for a year straight will be a good amount of revenue, and if that player gets bored with the game or stops buying as many boosts at that point, there may be new or returning players that will pick up the slack. Also, there will be new content, so they may have new stuff that they want to purchase or boost towards by then.

I really hope they find a good sweet spot. Where purchasing skins and guns and boosts and shit isn't overpriced, but still nets them a ton of money. I think that having steam sale type stuff will really help the game, where they are still making an income, but sometimes it's through volume not high pricing.

Sledgecrushr · 2012-06-17, 09:31 PM

I really hope there are hundreds of great skins for sale in the cash shop. This is going to be the greatest game ever.

JimmyOmaha · 2012-06-17, 10:18 PM

Hope our marketing team is just as savvy and dedicated as the development team!

I know I'll be taking advantage of boosts/camos if there is no subscription model. Otherwise I'm sure I'll settle on a look I prefer and not buy anymore cosmetics, until new stuff comes out that it. :]

One thing I'd love to see is the option to buy a complete PS/PS2 soundtrack; also choosing what one plays during game-play would be nice.

Trafalgar · 2012-06-17, 11:48 PM

I bought TF2 (in The Orange Box). Haven't ever bought anything from its store. Don't really play it anymore. Too many items. I used to have a complete set of all weapons, in vintage quality (when the only weapons that existed were the ones that became vintage).

But as they kept adding more and more weapons, which you had to either pay money for or grind forever and a day to get via drops, and I rarely played it because it was only semi-fun, I just lost interest and stopped playing entirely.

That said, their item store is VERY profitable. I have no idea how much of that is hats, how much is weapons, and how much is crate keys. I wonder if there are statistics anywhere?

Novacane · 2012-06-18, 12:01 AM

I'm kind of confused. You want to give more money to play the same game? It's not like the core game play would change if the game had a subscription. I can't speak for anyone else but I pay for gameplay, not how many hats I have.
A normal MMO subscription is $180 a year + $60 for the box and usually $40 - $60 for expansions. With the in-game store, you are basically given the option of paying as much or as little as you want.
If you don't think the game or the items are worth buying, no one is forcing you to do so. It's not like they are doing it because it is a small upstart company struggling for subs, SOE is a well established, mature company with as solid of a business model as an online game producer could have. I'm sure their marketing people ran over many scenarios that led to their conclusion to make it F2P with micro-transactions.

Dagron · 2012-06-18, 03:37 AM

Originally Posted by ParisTeta

Some people will say, well on less coffee this week for my new skin, but coffee has an effect, the skin not so much, and in the long run, i want to buy often, i only worsen my situation. I buyed 120 Skins for 120 $ ? Kewl you bought Mass Effect 6 and Diablo 4 for that, two whole games.

You want to compare prices with other games? Alright let's compare your guess of $120 with the right category of game.
Think of how much people pay over the first year for a subscription MMO. They usually buy the game for let's say $60 and pay $15 a month. That's exactly double the ammount you guessed was right there.
It's like they bought 5 skins that cost $3 every month in a game they had to pay for to get in the first place. That seems like the kind of thing only the most "throws caution to the wind" type of consumer would do in this business model. I'm willing to bet most people will get a little carried away and buy lets say 1 or 2 skins a month, tops (obviously they'll buy a lot at first and then slow down gradually).

^Edit: doh, didn't really read Novacane's post... that was basically the same thing he said. :P

Originally Posted by ParisTeta

So how can the shop be used to really sell value?

One Idee is animation, they are hard and costly to make, but just emotes is plain stupid (hello STO), how about getting in the seats/and out of vehicle animation, which would cost 10-15$ something like that. Behind that there is a real working effort, i could honour with money, but a skin which is made in what? 15 Minutes by the expierenced artist.

Real working effort? As opposed to the rest of the whole game (it's core gameplay!) that you're getting for free? Yeah, that took no effort or money at all...

You don't seem to realize that when you pay for a skin, you're actually paying for the whole game! Think of it this way, when you "buy" a skin or whatever, you're actually donating to the creators of a game that was given to you, and for your support they award you with a little in game perk.

JimmyOmaha · 2012-06-18, 03:37 AM

Originally Posted by Novacane

I'm kind of confused. You want to give more money to play the same game? It's not like the core game play would change if the game had a subscription. I can't speak for anyone else but I pay for gameplay, not how many hats I have.
A normal MMO subscription is $180 a year + $60 for the box and usually $40 - $60 for expansions. With the in-game store, you are basically given the option of paying as much or as little as you want.
If you don't think the game or the items are worth buying, no one is forcing you to do so. It's not like they are doing it because it is a small upstart company struggling for subs, SOE is a well established, mature company with as solid of a business model as an online game producer could have. I'm sure their marketing people ran over many scenarios that led to their conclusion to make it F2P with micro-transactions.

More so for me, being lazy.

XP/resource boosts would just recur; instead of me having to repurchase them weekly.

Ultimately I'm a fan of the F2P model and devs, in general, are becoming better at not blatantly selling power. So in summation I'll be playing and my time/money will be distributed accordingly.

Sabot · 2012-06-18, 03:58 AM

Another thing is, we haven't seen even a fraction of all the skins, for example... and you might actually like many of them. Or they might be useful to game play (I don't really count a useful camo pattern as selling power unless it actually makes you a chameleon).

indirect · 2012-06-18, 04:22 AM

Want to pay to support, but don't like anything in the cash shop? Sub for a month or two then unsub.

Vashyo · 2012-06-18, 04:33 AM

I think I saw Daily/Weekly-sale events in the store in the PS2 E3 Stream #3. So I suppose if u can wait u will get stuff cheaper, if u're after more value. I personally will only buy if I get good value myself, I just can't be arsed to pay 4€ for 10kb texture.

Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xcmH...ailpage#t=620s

Dagron · 2012-06-18, 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by Vashyo

I think I saw Daily/Weekly-sale events in the store in the PS2 E3 Stream #3. So I suppose if u can wait u will get stuff cheaper, if u're after more value.

Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xcmH...ailpage#t=620s

Nice. I hadn't noticed that, ty.

Originally Posted by Vashyo

I just can't be arsed to pay 4€ for 10kb texture.

After all i said i feel it should be pointed out that despite my desire to support the game, i agree prices on little things shouldn't be more than symbolic values, otherwise most people wouldn't buy them.

Let's hope the people in charge of that will have enough sense to not make any mistakes.