Disappearance of Backpack and Trunk Storages - Page 5

TeaLeaf · 2012-06-17, 07:31 AM

Removing the inventory system isn't really "dumbing down". I'd only consider the removal of complexity (note, not the same thing as depth) as "dumbing down" if the complexity added a lot to the game in the first place.

Class systems are easier to balance and make teamwork both more natural (you know anyone dressed as a medic can heal you, for example) and more necessary (you can't build a swiss army knife character that doesn't need allies).

Xaine · 2012-06-17, 08:33 AM

Also going to miss this feature.

They're dumbing down the game for the waves of people who will burst into tears when something isn't embarrassingly obvious, and they might have to think a little bit.

No the devs fault, it's what the gaming community has become.

Welcome to the CoD/WoW generation.

Littleman · 2012-06-17, 09:15 AM

The inventory system amounted to taking the basic and obvious choices of med app, engi tool, and 2 weapons of your choosing, then filling in the rest of the space with a mix of ammo and supplies organized in a fashion that maximized use of available space.

If you come in here and tell me you didn't do that, you were gimping yourself, lying or spent most of your time in close proximity to a terminal or rolled in a vehicle/aircraft 90% of the time. It was the most common setup in game, made even worse with the rexo buff.

BR20 didn't stop the one-man armies, BR20 was still enough certs to have rexo-med-eng-ha-AV and STILL have spare certs. BR20 merely restricted characters from performing any additional roles like driving, piloting, stealth, etc.

PS2's class system removes the unnecessary restrictions, but also prevents the one-man army setups. Sure, now a player as access to all of the old PS1 certs, but they can't set up the OP combos of old that made them into one-man armies.

All suggestions regarding "restrictions" to the old system are quite literally synonomous with the class system.

"If you bring this, you can't bring that!" Class system has that covered! Medics can't haul around engi tools or miniguns! Engineers can't haul around defibrillators! HA are only capable of spewing a lot of ammo!

"BR20 restricted certs enough that no one made a one-man army!" Except one still could, but their ONLY option was to play that one-man army. PS2 allows everyone to have options with what they bring to the fight at all times, they just choose which one they want to specialize in for faster reloads, cool gadgetry and attachments, etc.

The inventory system wasn't complicated, just unrestrictive for the most part and near worthless with a class system in place. What we have access to in PS1 are the basics of PS2. Don't say the game is getting over simplified, especially over the loss of choosing an ammo pack over a medkit, PS2 is bringing MORE than PS1 ever had to offer. I don't recall being able to choose placing a foregrip, shotgun, or launcher onto my rifle in PS1 (assuming these are attachments in PS2.) My cycler always was and always is a Cycler in PS1.

Streamlining is the act of cutting all the unnecessary bloat. We lost a lot of vehicles. We lost a good number of weaponry (some made simply obsolete, such as the punisher.) I'm sorry you view the loss of inventory as some act of blasphemy. PS2 won't realize the player numbers it needs and deserves catering to the PS1 crowd. A great many - too many - have given up on PS1 for a myriad of reasons including it's mechanics. PS1 is on life support precisely because it's doing poorly, but SOE won't lay the shining beacon of light to rest before it's descendant is ready to carry the torch.

Bobby Shaftoe · 2012-06-17, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Littleman

BR20 didn't stop the one-man armies

BR20 was enough to be a maxed out Infantryman, little more.

[2] MA
[4] HA
[3] AV
[3] SA (Remember, Deci was SA at release)
[3] RExo
[3] Med
[3] Eng

2 points left for either an ATV or Adv med/CE or AMS

If you went for advmed/CE you had no transport, if you went ams/atv you couldnt deploy CE and still required others to hack enemy terminals etc.

It's strange how PS was an FPS, yet people seemed to hate others spending ALL of their certs on combat capabilities/effectiveness.

They've lobotomised the gameplay by introducing things such as the 'medic class' to 'promote teamwork' through hideous mechanics such as in-combat ranged healing and AOE healing, whilst simultaneously introducing regenerating shields and health (taking the place of med app/bank) which diminishes the whole point of what they were trying to accomplish in the first place!

Deadeye · 2012-06-17, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by QuantumMechanic

Backpacks and vehicle trunks in PS1 were part of the (very flexible) inventory system.

PS2's inventory system is quite different. You pick the class you want to spawn as, and based on that you pick the gear you are allowed to have.

There was talk of being able to loot enemies way back when... but I haven't seen any evidence that it's in-game currently. The kind of issues that Higby points to in these situations is how do you handle looting a weapon that has a bunch of customizations on it that you aren't certed for?

You just give it to them. It was one of the main reasons to pick up an enemy's weapon in BF3: to see what attachment others were using and to drop an ammo crate or medic pack then switch back. I think they're going a bit overboard with the whole certification thing. So what if the guy doesn't have the cert points for a scope? He's probably not going to be alive for more than a few minutes depending on the intensity of the battle, so why not just let him fool around with it? Is it really that bad?

Littleman · 2012-06-17, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

BR20 was enough to be a maxed out Infantryman, little more.

[2] MA
[4] HA
[3] AV
[3] SA (Remember, Deci was SA at release)
[3] RExo
[3] Med
[3] Eng

2 points left for either an ATV or Adv med/CE or AMS

If you went for advmed/CE you had no transport, if you went ams/atv you couldnt deploy CE and still required others to hack enemy terminals etc.

It's strange how PS was an FPS, yet people seemed to hate others spending ALL of their certs on combat capabilities/effectiveness.

They've lobotomised the gameplay by introducing things such as the 'medic class' to 'promote teamwork' through hideous mechanics such as in-combat ranged healing and AOE healing, whilst simultaneously introducing regenerating shields and health (taking the place of med app/bank) which diminishes the whole point of what they were trying to accomplish in the first place!

This IS the one man army.

If you're rolling around in a tank or an aircraft, I don't care if you're in standard armor with the big ACE and that laser pointer thingy or packing a minigun, med app, and engi tool, it's the freaking tank/aircraft you're in I'm concerned with. IF you bail out, $#!%, that sucks, good news was they did restrict armor there.

Neither the tank nor the aircraft could repair unless the driver got out and equipped themselves with the proper tool, making them vulnerable, or found themselves a repair terminal/lodestar, taking them away from the fight or relying on someone else anyway.

Classes are about preventing the number one occurance of Planetside: infantry one man armies. That is: HA/AV/REXO/MED/ENGI. Not precisely that set up regarding the weaponry, but the last 3 were pretty much a part of most player's grunt setup. These troops were 100% self-sustainable and solo capable. Classes are not about restricting vehicles, they were already classes in and of themselves even in PS1. Classes are about making infantry interdependent on others.

If one can not see this, they choose not to. The class system restricts what a player may bring to a fight, but does not restrict them to only ever bringing any one specific set of equipment to a fight like BR20 did. It's obvious the class system is here to stay. It just fixes the restrictions of old BR20, while also fixing the complete freedom BR40 offered.

If old Planetside worked the way PS2 will, this wouldn't be an issue, because people wouldn't have the old, broken system to cling onto like it as perfect. The old cert system is horribly flawed, no matter how many certs one has access to.

DarkChiron · 2012-06-17, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

They've lobotomised the gameplay by introducing things such as the 'medic class' to 'promote teamwork' through hideous mechanics such as in-combat ranged healing and AOE healing, whilst simultaneously introducing regenerating shields and health (taking the place of med app/bank) which diminishes the whole point of what they were trying to accomplish in the first place!

So I assume by what you wrote here you're under some delusion that the passive health/sheild regeneration is going to be at a rate comparable to a medic's heal gun?

proxy · 2012-06-17, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Xaine

Also going to miss this feature.

They're dumbing down the game for the waves of people who will burst into tears when something isn't embarrassingly obvious, and they might have to think a little bit.

No the devs fault, it's what the gaming community has become.

Welcome to the CoD/WoW generation.

No. Strawman. I played far more games with classes before I ever played Planetside.

There is no functional difference between changing loadout and changing class AND loadout within that class.

Bobby Shaftoe · 2012-06-17, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by DarkChiron

So I assume by what you wrote here you're under some delusion that the passive health/sheild regeneration is going to be at a rate comparable to a medic's heal gun?

Funny, since there's no 'armour' in PS2, shields are effective health, health that regens in about 15 seconds from not taking damage, that regens WITHOUT YOU DOING ANYTHING, you don't need to stop moving, equip a bank/med app and sit there completely vulnerable to get that health.

So yes, it trades a slower recharge rate for not having the player required to do anything.

Snipefrag · 2012-06-17, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Raymac

I've said it before. The clunky tetris mini-game inventory system was one of my least favorite things about Planetside. I'm overjoyed to see it done way with.

My thoughts exactly, it was clunky and slightly annoying. One of the things that just raised the learning curve of the game. I do hope that hacking vehicles/using enemy weapons do make a return in some guise, but i dont think you need an inventory system like in PS1 to make that happen.

DarkChiron · 2012-06-17, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

Funny, since there's no 'armour' in PS2, shields are effective health, health that regens in about 15 seconds from not taking damage, that regens WITHOUT YOU DOING ANYTHING, you don't need to stop moving, equip a bank/med app and sit there completely vulnerable to get that health.

So yes, it trades a slower recharge rate for not having the player required to do anything.

So what's your point? People shouldn't get any shields/armor back at all without a medic babysitting them? How does that fit into the model they have where it's easier for you do die? Where did you get the figure that shields recharge in 15 seconds? If they did, why shouldn't they when they appear to absorb all of 2-3 bullets?

BattsTR · 2012-06-17, 07:59 PM

I think the fact that everyone got engi and medic to heal themselves helped teamwork in PS1. There was never a shortage of people helping to heal each other. Maxes would get healed by 5 or 6 people at once even if they weren't part of your direct platoon or outfit. People would pitch in to help repair my skeeter without me even asking for it. I think when classes are implemented less people will have the ability to help their fellow player out.

Bobby Shaftoe · 2012-06-17, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by DarkChiron

So what's your point? People shouldn't get any shields/armor back at all without a medic babysitting them? How does that fit into the model they have where it's easier for you do die? Where did you get the figure that shields recharge in 15 seconds? If they did, why shouldn't they when they appear to absorb all of 2-3 bullets?

No, it's because a large part for people whining about super soldiers was their ability to sustain themselves without external support, something still present in PS2 and now it doesn't even require them to perform any action.

Meh, not bothered about this anymore, just going to be whoring up kills in OP airchav and farming all the new zerglings.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2012-06-17, 09:10 PM

how am i supposed to lay a minefield as an infil using an AMS or wraith now?

RandomNPC · 2012-06-17, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Zulthus

If you knew at all what you were talking about, PS1 was a "failure" (which it really wasn't, there's a reason it's still around today) because in 2003 nobody had the hardware to run it. Nothing was wrong with its mechanics, in fact, it was much more in depth than pretty much every FPS out there. The scale, the empires, the teamwork, the variety, the persistence, the immersion, the details, the community. Maybe it wasn't graphically as pretty as other games, but damn, it didn't need that at all.

Many here have had more fun in and played Planetside more than any other game, because it was something different. Not the generic WWII 64 player match based simplistic FPS games of the time.

It was a failure, that doesn't mean it wasn't fun. It had lots of depth, that doesn't mean it wasn't overly complex with clunky mechanics.

Yes it was awesome as an mmo, yes it was a failure as an fps. Many many improvements to be had, and they're moving in the right direction - because PS1 was never visioned to be an mmo first and an fps second, but due to limitations it had to become that.

Edit: And why is it considered dumbing something down when the original system was overly complex and inaccessible? The class system is simple, yes, it allows you to quickly have access to your equipment you would have otherwise have to swap equipment from an inventory. You can still customize your loadouts and whatnot. It just prevents heavy's from being able to heal themselves, improving the need for teamwork.
Why is this bad? "Because it's not the same as PS1" QQ

You call it dumbing down for the masses, I call it making the game more accessible. Twelve of one and a dozen of the other? Sure, but why the hell are you thinking it's a bad thing? You want PS2 to be as unsuccessful as PS1 was? I for one would like to have people playing the game.