Pros and cons of each faction? (Specifically VS) - Page 2

Pinkie Pie · 2012-07-19, 11:28 AM

i'd recommend joining Vanu if you want to be stealth and stuff. the sniper rifle has zero bulletdrop, and the range diminishing isn't *that* bad. plus, since the Vanu's rifle has almost no recoil, you can land several sniper rounds in rather quick succession, without having to correct too much.

greenberetdelta · 2012-07-19, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Hosp

I've posted this b4 and I'll post it again:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...S2Analysis.jpg

i want to read this looks interesting but 2 problems. what with the white square under accuracy falloff and what does accuracy falloff mean? also how can i zoom in on the pic with out getting pixelated words?

Hosp · 2012-07-19, 02:59 PM

I'll retype soon(im at work), but accuracy falloff is the distance at which bullet drop would become so great that it's hard to compensate. With VS having none, it pushes the TRs up a little, but the NCs down a little.

And yes, photubucket likes to resize things down. It's annoying for anything with normal sized text.

For those who couldn't read:

This is an interpolation of Data based on the Dev PC Gamer Graphic, PS1 Gameplay, and (to a lesser extent) Physics.

Starting with Accuracy, It should be noted that accuracy seems to mean how well the bullet travels along a straight path prior to bullet declination (due to gravity) taking over. What this essentially means is that, assuming no recoil, your shots should always hit along a vertical line. Something to keep in mind, this is off from actual physics where recoil would be interpolated as such, and accuracy as an overall value via recoil and declination (among other environmental factors). So it appears the devs are using Accuracy as a value for bullet declination and recoil for all-around movement, essentially bloom.

With this in mind, the VS weapons have no gravitational effects on them. So they have 100% accuracy before bloom. The fact they have a recoil value though means they won't always have pinpoint accuracy. Gun a Mag-Rider in PS1? There's always that little amount of play where the shot will miss in spite of aiming dead on and holding still.
The NC have a "High" initial accuracy. Meaning the first few shots should be dead on in close to moderate range. But their high falloff requires compensation at range due to heavier bullets falling faster [due to drag].
The TR are supposed to have "Moderate" initial accuracy. But relative to the other Empires, they would be low. That being said their falloff is lower as lighter bullets [due to smaller surface area being dragged] won't drop as fast and are therefore more accurate at range.
Now, the VS are missing in the falloff category because they have no falloff. because of that gap, it can be interpreted that the NCs falloff isn't as bad as may initially seem while the TRs is slightly worse. However, this still means that at range, the TR will have a slightly easier time hitting an NC assuming both are of equal skill.

Next Recoil. Due to VS lack of bullet declination, their energy powered weapons seem to recoil much more. So as mentioned already about the Mag-Rider, as accurate as it is, there's always that chance the bloom will cause a miss.
The NC have a low burst recoil, meaning depending on the weapons, a 3 or 4 round burst should cause little bloom. But their sustained fire will turn their weapons into paint sprayers. This is just as it was in PS1 with the Gauss Rifle.
The TR have a higher Burst recoil and lower sustained recoil. This can be taken to mean that while they bloom quickly, the bloom will not get horribly worse by just holding the trigger, OR not as worse as fast. I believe the latter to be the more plausible case due to the entirety of the factors being taken into account in this analysis.

Next Rate of Fire. Pretty straight forward. My only beggin question about RoF is that it is theoretical assuming an endless supply of ammo. If a given weapon in a particular class reloads significantly faster than others, that could throw off quite a bit of balance.

Falloff:
As seen with the NC, If you can put you lead on target, damage won't drop very fast at range. (arbitrary numbers) if you do 100% damage at 50m, you'll be doing 90% at 75m.
TR, their lighter bullets explain RoF to compensate for their lack of stopping power. If you do 100% at 50m you'll do 80-85% at 75m.
VS, due to their accuracy bonuses have the worst damage falloff. If you do 100% at 50m, you'll do 75-80% at 75m.

Something that hasn't been mentioned anywhere was if the various empires will have effective cutoff ranges to their weapons. This was seen in PS1 with a few weapons where it was possible to sit outside of some ranges while looking at the poor guy trying to shoot you and you're not taking any damage because the rounds disappear.
Reload times and an Empire whose weapons have the longest effective range before cutoff (if cutoffs exist) would throw off the balance of this analysis and potentially create an overpowered empire.

NOTE* This obviously only applies to "Gun/Cannon" weapons and not launchers, shotguns, flame throwers, rockets etc.

greenberetdelta · 2012-07-19, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Hosp

I'll retype soon(im at work), but accuracy falloff is the distance at which bullet drop would become so great that it's hard to compensate. With VS having none, it pushes the TRs up a little, but the NCs down a little.

And yes, photubucket likes to resize things down. It's annoying for anything with normal sized text.

For those who couldn't read:

This is an interpolation of Data based on the Dev PC Gamer Graphic, PS1 Gameplay, and (to a lesser extent) Physics.

Starting with Accuracy, It should be noted that accuracy seems to mean how well the bullet travels along a straight path prior to bullet declination (due to gravity) taking over. What this essentially means is that, assuming no recoil, your shots should always hit along a vertical line. Something to keep in mind, this is off from actual physics where recoil would be interpolated as such, and accuracy as an overall value via recoil and declination (among other environmental factors). So it appears the devs are using Accuracy as a value for bullet declination and recoil for all-around movement, essentially bloom.

With this in mind, the VS weapons have no gravitational effects on them. So they have 100% accuracy before bloom. The fact they have a recoil value though means they won't always have pinpoint accuracy. Gun a Mag-Rider in PS1? There's always that little amount of play where the shot will miss in spite of aiming dead on and holding still.
The NC have a "High" initial accuracy. Meaning the first few shots should be dead on in close to moderate range. But their high falloff requires compensation at range due to heavier bullets falling faster [due to drag].
The TR are supposed to have "Moderate" initial accuracy. But relative to the other Empires, they would be low. That being said their falloff is lower as lighter bullets [due to smaller surface area being dragged] won't drop as fast and are therefore more accurate at range.
Now, the VS are missing in the falloff category because they have no falloff. because of that gap, it can be interpreted that the NCs falloff isn't as bad as may initially seem while the TRs is slightly worse. However, this still means that at range, the TR will have a slightly easier time hitting an NC assuming both are of equal skill.

Next Recoil. Due to VS lack of bullet declination, their energy powered weapons seem to recoil much more. So as mentioned already about the Mag-Rider, as accurate as it is, there's always that chance the bloom will cause a miss.
The NC have a low burst recoil, meaning depending on the weapons, a 3 or 4 round burst should cause little bloom. But their sustained fire will turn their weapons into paint sprayers. This is just as it was in PS1 with the Gauss Rifle.
The TR have a higher Burst recoil and lower sustained recoil. This can be taken to mean that while they bloom quickly, the bloom will not get horribly worse by just holding the trigger, OR not as worse as fast. I believe the latter to be the more plausible case due to the entirety of the factors being taken into account in this analysis.

Next Rate of Fire. Pretty straight forward. My only beggin question about RoF is that it is theoretical assuming an endless supply of ammo. If a given weapon in a particular class reloads significantly faster than others, that could throw off quite a bit of balance.

Falloff:
As seen with the NC, If you can put you lead on target, damage won't drop very fast at range. (arbitrary numbers) if you do 100% damage at 50m, you'll be doing 90% at 75m.
TR, their lighter bullets explain RoF to compensate for their lack of stopping power. If you do 100% at 50m you'll do 80-85% at 75m.
VS, due to their accuracy bonuses have the worst damage falloff. If you do 100% at 50m, you'll do 75-80% at 75m.

Something that hasn't been mentioned anywhere was if the various empires will have effective cutoff ranges to their weapons. This was seen in PS1 with a few weapons where it was possible to sit outside of some ranges while looking at the poor guy trying to shoot you and you're not taking any damage because the rounds disappear.
Reload times and an Empire whose weapons have the longest effective range before cutoff (if cutoffs exist) would throw off the balance of this analysis and potentially create an overpowered empire.

NOTE* This obviously only applies to "Gun/Cannon" weapons and not launchers, shotguns, flame throwers, rockets etc.

alright thanks alot

Klockan · 2012-07-20, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by EisenKreutzer

The way I understand it is, if you have solid aim then the NC are arguably the better faction to join. Since they do more damage per bullet, your damage output will be higher if you can consistently land those shots.

Vanu, lacking bullet drop, will possibly be the easiest faction if you have some skills and moderate experience.

The TR put more rounds downrange faster, but do lower damage per bullet, so landing bursts is important, probably placing them second in the difficulty range with NC on top and easy mode Vanu at the bottom.

Or you could say that NC is the easiest faction since they got the largest advantage when they get the drop on someone which favors noob camping. Also noob campers believe that the NC are the easiest to kill with at long range which is also a reason noob campers favors them. NC noobs do believe that they are the pro faction even though TR is the faction for old school twitch based run n gun FPS players and Navu is the hardest faction to play since their weapons are so revealing that you need to think really carefully before you shoot at unsuspecting enemies since they will be able to pinpoint your location instantly.

There are no noob factions or pro factions though, every faction have their positives and negatives. It is easiest to camp with NC, it is easiest to run in and smoke out a house with TR, I don't really know what is easy with NS though they really haven't given any of their weapons strong points they just seem overall average with no strong point. No bullet drop is not an advantage if it means that their shots will lose potency instead. Also they don't seem to get anything to make up for their flashy effects.

TAA · 2012-07-20, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Klockan

It is easiest to camp with NC, it is easiest to run in and smoke out a house with TR, I don't really know what is easy with NS though they really haven't given any of their weapons strong points they just seem overall average with no strong point. No bullet drop is not an advantage if it means that their shots will lose potency instead. Also they don't seem to get anything to make up for their flashy effects.

Playing Vanu is like charging into combat with a disco ball in your hands. It doesn't get much cooler than that.

Trip · 2012-07-20, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by Hosp

I'll retype soon(im at work),...

wow, very detailed. thank you.

Bogarty · 2012-07-21, 09:15 PM

I see one thing that could alleviate everyone's concern about Vanu's strength with their rifles.

Although armor-piercing bullets aren't being included (or the inventory) from the original PS;
Vanu weapons could switch to armor-piercing on their weapons, and only carried one universal source for laser ammo.

For application in this game, how about a SLIGHT increase damage to vehicles. I remember in PS1 that even with a Pulsar just switching to AP made a difference when fighting a mosquito.

By slight (in reference to killing a mosquito), I mean... If a gauss rifle takes say... 200 shots (very rough estimate) , then let the pulsar do it in 170.

WILDWAYNE · 2012-07-21, 10:13 PM

I think I'm going to pick TR.

Hosp · 2012-07-21, 10:42 PM

I wonder if the OP found what he was looking for.

krnasaur · 2012-07-21, 11:14 PM

purple/aqua lazers+ night combat> all

Cutter · 2012-07-21, 11:18 PM

Forgetting range, do you want to sneak up on some guy trying to cap something and blast him once or twice or dump a clip in him? What's more satisfying for you? Do you want to plod along in vehicles or really get into the danger zone because you feel the need for speed? Either way I think your choices are TR - the best - or NC - the smurfs. Or maybe you're more like Goldilocks and don't want too or too cold but just right and the Vanu is for you.

You really won't know untill you get there and experiment anyway so it's all so much academia.

Boomzor · 2012-07-22, 12:19 AM

As to what I perceive as the most beneficial traits of the Vanu would be mobility of vehicles and energy weapons that disregards bullet drop over distance (albeit with reduced stopping power over distance)

Other than that,

NC has the most bang for the buck, you just need to make the bangs count as much as possible. The trade off would be lumber-some and perceivable clunky movement with, hopefully, enough armour to withstand the punishment while you conduct your business.

TR literally shit bullets. If one or two miss, it's not the end of the world. There's a lot more of where the previous ones came from. Just keep that aim true over time and you'll do good enough.
Vehicles will use their speed and rate of fire in the hands of a skilled gunner to overcome their enemies.

If you'd ask me, I say bang for the buck is what counts, but you're VS and I won't hold that against you (except that I'd try to kill you every chance I'd get, see sig)