Good news for the outraged, dissapointed PS1 vets

Rolfski · 2012-11-01, 07:42 PM

Cheer up, you will (mostly) get what you want

If you watch a few dev commentaries like this one, things should start to make a lot more sense. Especially if you read between the lines:
Their whole idea has always been to release a BF3 on crack and then turn it into a PS1 on steroids over time.

Right now they focus on making it attractive enough for the (casual) masses to keep the offices running but they will gradually add a lot of your PS1 stuff:

Can't live without your 2-manned tank? Be prepared to Cert for it.
Dying for that ant run? They will add secondary objectives.
Shallow like Paris Hilton? The meta game will make it more Meryl Streep.
No feeling of accomplishment? Continent locking will be there.
Want to keep the Zergs out for hours with 2 man only? Ford Knoxes and other choke points will be there.
Train that noob in a safe environment? VR is already on the drawing board.
BFR's that ruin the game? Won't happen.
Want to get lost inside a bunker? Indoor bases will appear.
Hate the hex system? They will flesh it out so that you don't want to go back anymore.
Etc, etc.

Of course you must have a bit of patience and not everything will come in the same format as PS1. I'm pretty sure though that if this game will become a success, it will end up a lot more hardcore then you have ever wished for.

Hopefully this idea will cheer up the infuriated and depressed PS1 vets a bit. Because I really would love to see more positive posts from PS1 vets in this forum.

Crator · 2012-11-01, 08:03 PM

A lot of people seem to think that the game will fail if released in current state, with a lot of the stuff missing that you listed among other things. However, if SOE does keep up with these kinds of fixes then the game will defiantly be great in time. And I don't think a bad first impression is all that bad. This is a free-to-play game after all.

Also, first impressions are not all that bad, when you first start. Other then the new player experience issues. The game looks great! And is fun to an extent. It's the depth that missing. So next iteration of a FPS that comes out a lot of players will probably migrate there for some time. But when SOE updates PS2 with meta-game stuff and bug fixes and such, they will come back again. For the same reason they tried the game in the first place, it's free to play. Some people are just drama queens is all.

You must know though, some PS1 vets have been scarred for life by SOE.

It's only natural they get upset like this cause they went through a whirlwind of crap with PS1.

Aaron · 2012-11-01, 08:14 PM

Good to hear. We really can't be too rash with PS2. It needs a lot of time.

Marinealver · 2012-11-01, 08:43 PM

Is this all comming before or after launch.

SOE has craped all over us before and I won't put it beyond them to say this and do that instead.

Figment · 2012-11-01, 08:51 PM

They really need to communicate what they're working on, short, long term priorities so we can keep giving feedback and they manage expectations a bit better.

That said, I really hope they look beyond a "cert" for driver/gunner, because it's just coming across as a half arsed token "solution" that's not actually fixing the problems and reasons why we want it. :/

Rolfski · 2012-11-02, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

They really need to communicate what they're working on, short, long term priorities so we can keep giving feedback and they manage expectations a bit better.

I think they are doing that as best as possible, imo at least better than most developers. The problem is they can't promise too much in a planning phase of a feature or people will immediately set it in stone and hold them to it. They need to keep some flexibility in their design processes.

That's why you need to read between the lines a bit and check up on these devs in more informal situations like spontaneous stream Q&A's.

Bottom line is; they have not forgotten about mechanics that apparently made PS1 such a classic. If they think it works for PS2 as well you will find it in there in some form sooner or later. If it doesn't work, they will look for other ways to add extra layers to the game that make the experience richer and deeper.

Why am I so 100% sure about all this?
Besides what the devs are telling us: If you look at it from a pure business point of view, this all makes perfectly sense.
You develop & release a very basic game (You should compare the upcoming release with Minecraft alfa), that is attractive enough to a wide amount of players to keep the office running. From there on you create and improve features/content that keep your players interested and make them even more addicted to the game. Best way to do it? Let them decide. If you do this well enough? Voila, you've just created an endless running, money making, machine.

Why do you think SOE is paying so much attention to Eve Online? It's because that universe has become the endless money making machine SOE is aiming for with PS2.

You guys call yourself true fans? I'm 100% sure you are but believe me, compared to hardcore Eve fans you would probably qualify as casual player. We're talking tattoos here, Eve's player base has become insanely attached to the game over the years and their numbers keep growing. That's all because the game improves considerably every year and they decide the game play. Their addiction keeps the offices staffed year over year.

SOE wants exactly this with PS2 so I wouldn't be too worried about this game not becoming hardcore enough, lol

Bags · 2012-11-02, 12:49 AM

Getting a tattoo of a game probably just means you have poor judgment.

bullet · 2012-11-02, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by Bags

Getting a tattoo of a game probably just means you have poor judgment.

You're telling me you don't have a Tri-Force tattoo on the back of your hand?

OT: I like where the Amerish patch is going in terms of the cont layout and base designs. There seem to be better divisions of vehicle territory and infantry territory. It seems like they've put more of a creative design process into outposts on Amerish instead of just putting a tower here and a building over there.

About driver/gunner tanks, Higby had mentioned you could cert into them and it would give your gunner even stronger weapon systems than what the driver currently uses, if I understood him correctly. I don't know how I feel about a system like that unless they tone down the current damage on MBTs main cannons. They'll have to do some good balancing acts to get that type of system in line.

Sifer2 · 2012-11-02, 01:09 AM

Are they seriously going to implement that stupid of idea of certing into a 2 man required tank? Why the hell would I cert into a nerf? Unless it doubles the armor of the tank that is useless. Just make them 2 man vehicles by default an buff the Lightnings AV capacity for the casuals.

At least the other stuff sounds promising though. Thing is the whole launching as Battlefield 4, and slowly turning into PS2 over time sounds like a slippery slope to me. I think it will heavily depend on who the bigger audience ends up being after launch. If the casuals do embrace it then I expect it to only get worse. More dumb changes like the pull Sunderers from outposts change. Next one I expect is reduced cooldown on Instant Action. Just more zerg less tactics. Unless the casuals play for a bit then mostly leave behind the PS1 players. If that happens then yeah I expect they will cater more to what we want though it's not ideal for their F2P model to succeed. They might be used to it by now though as really none of SOE recent products have been smash hits.

Rolfski · 2012-11-02, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by Bags

Getting a tattoo of a game probably just means you have poor judgment.

You would think so until you read this stunning article that gives a fascinating insight in the world of Eve Online fans.

It's the wet dream of every game developer and SOE would die for this. That's why they teamed up with Eve Online/CCP to release Dust 514. That's why they developed this player based content system that will get released within all of their games, including PS2. And this is also the very reason PS1 vets should never ever have to worry. As long as this game is paying for itself, you WILL get stuff you love.

PoisonTaco · 2012-11-02, 01:58 AM

Looking forward to what Planetside 2 looks like in a year from now.

Helwyr · 2012-11-02, 02:08 AM

Nice theory, but here's an alternative...

SOE open up the game on Nov 20th and Planetside 2 goes live. PS2 is the latest new shiny game and attracts a tons of new gamers that had never even heard of the original game let alone played it. The old PS1 community is now a small blip of the PS2 community tired of posting for changes and correcting idiots. PS2 Devs now react on the new community's feedback and abandon all the stuff they promised the earlier beta community. Most of these ideas are formulated by the games these new players come from so we simultaneously get demands to make PS2 more like WoW and CoD. Crap is implemented, most PS1 vets abandon the game. Bulk of the new community bolts 6 months later to the latest new shinny game, leaving a much reduced player base that really like the Battlfield/CoD/WoW influenced version of Planetside.

Oddly it's that the SOE Developer team seem for the most part to do whatever they had planned regardless of feedback that gives me hope my version of the future will not come to pass. But if there's a lesson learned from years of following and playing MMOs it's to judge developers like politicians, on their actions not their promises.

In regards to EVE, comparing that to a game makes me recoil from it like a stinking turd. A lot of former EVE fans turned their back on that game, those that linger it's often because of the strong social connections some players have in EVE, not the terrible gameplay. Take away the social aspect all that's left is a crappy Space WoW (albeit still with a Sandbox economy).

Rolfski · 2012-11-02, 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by Helwyr

Most of these ideas are formulated by the games these new players come from so we simultaneously get demands to make PS2 more like WoW and CoD.

You assume that players suggesting ideas from other games automatically leads to a worse PS2 game. Well I have bad news for you, where do you think the ideas from the original PS1 came from? Every game is based/inspired on ideas from other games.

In general, I have not seen this game becoming worse since the last 2 months because of "crappy WoW/COD elements" that got implemented. I think you're underestimating the intelligence of newcomers here.

artifice · 2012-11-02, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfski

You assume that players suggesting ideas from other games automatically leads to a worse PS2 game. Well I have bad news for you, where do you think the ideas from the original PS1 came from? Every game is based/inspired on ideas from other games.

In general, I have not seen this game becoming worse since the last 2 months because of "crappy WoW/COD elements" that got implemented. I think you're underestimating the intelligence of newcomers here.

I completely agree. This game is far more appealing than Planetside 1 ever was.

eXpo · 2012-11-02, 04:44 AM

Originally Posted by Sifer2

Are they seriously going to implement that stupid of idea of certing into a 2 man required tank? Why the hell would I cert into a nerf? Unless it doubles the armor of the tank that is useless. Just make them 2 man vehicles by default an buff the Lightnings AV capacity for the casuals.

At least the other stuff sounds promising though. Thing is the whole launching as Battlefield 4, and slowly turning into PS2 over time sounds like a slippery slope to me. I think it will heavily depend on who the bigger audience ends up being after launch. If the casuals do embrace it then I expect it to only get worse. More dumb changes like the pull Sunderers from outposts change. Next one I expect is reduced cooldown on Instant Action. Just more zerg less tactics. Unless the casuals play for a bit then mostly leave behind the PS1 players. If that happens then yeah I expect they will cater more to what we want though it's not ideal for their F2P model to succeed. They might be used to it by now though as really none of SOE recent products have been smash hits.

Regarding the tank gunner cert, it would be an advanced certification that would unlock the ability to use more powerful tank weapons as well, so there would be a benefit of using 2 guys.