Infantry Support Engineer concerns.

Ravenclaw · 2012-11-07, 07:50 AM

Engineers + air/tanks is fine as is....

But I play infantry support engineer... ie I the guy who keeps my team stocked up on ammo.

However when we defending base against tank attack I started to realise the Engineers role is very very lacking and here are a few of my concerns.

.

Ammo Pack shares Utility slot with mines...
If you tank driver, you not gonna be thinking much about deploying mines, but as infantry support Mines are one first things you think about as you want to secure the area... however.. you cant secure a area and keep your team stocked up with ammo... and ammo is FAR more important.

I really feel Mines & Ammo pack should be seperated to different equipment slots.

.

MANA turrets next to useless...
Sheild on MANA turret simple don't protect you at all, its too easy to get bullet between the shield and direct to the head, to easy to flank it due to not being mobile.

I really feel MANA turrets should be scrapped and replace AI turrets, one anti-Infanty, one anti-tank and one anti-air type... and deploy upto 3 at a time.

.

Under-Barrel Smoke Grenades...
I know these are not specific to engineers but they would be a ideal tool for a engineer if they was not so limited.

First problem is you get just 2 smoke grenade, which is not nearly enough, especially when your giving up on laser sights.

Secondly they don't restock from ammo packs.

I feel smoke grenades could be useful if we could use them more, but with these limits and sacrifices i think they are useless... I belive a change that allows smoke grenades to restock at ammo pack would really add something to a engineers ablity to support infantry front lines.

.

If anyone else has any postive suggestion of how engineer could support infantry groups better, rather than being forced to drive a vehicle (which defeats point of infantry support) then feel free to comment.

evilsooty · 2012-11-07, 09:29 AM

The more specialisation the better. Some will go down the route of just providing ammo and others will prefer laying minefields: you shouldn't be able to do everything at once. That kind of thinking is why BF has ended up as shit as it currently is.

Ravenclaw · 2012-11-07, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by evilsooty

The more specialisation the better. Some will go down the route of just providing ammo and others will prefer laying minefields: you shouldn't be able to do everything at once. That kind of thinking is why BF has ended up as shit as it currently is.

I don't think you get the point, if you focus on supporting infanty, then you just stand there dropping ammo and snoozing... so who gonna WANT to do that... they need something to distract them and maintain there support role.

Engineer specialisation option should be vehicle support or infantry support... Portable Ammo box is not a specialisation.

yonman · 2012-11-07, 09:51 AM

I agree about specialization but I also agree about the costs of using these support role items. Support is easily disregarded as something which provides no kills on the battlefield and so I think it should provide a much bigger punch for its use.

I think the severe limitation on tank mines, combined with their limited effect sharply reduces the motivation to use them at all. Proximity mines take lots of time to engage - a sprinting character will take very little damage. I'd like to see an engineer be able to deploy more than 3 or 4 mines. I don't think their damage is a problem - just that you could deploy a mine field with some depth to it. A deep minefield is one which is avoided and so becomes a force multiplier...

Btw, I'm all for mines having moderate counters - I'm all for an engineer rushing forward (under fire of course) with static grenades to start clearing up a path for the armor to roll.

Mutant · 2012-11-07, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenclaw

Ammo Pack shares Utility slot with mines...
If you tank driver, you not gonna be thinking much about deploying mines, but as infantry support Mines are one first things you think about as you want to secure the area... however.. you cant secure a area and keep your team stocked up with ammo... and ammo is FAR more important.

Press B from the Mana turret.

Mavvvy · 2012-11-07, 10:23 AM

Yup the engineer definitely a class which needs a second pass. Done right it could indeed aid the issues concerning tank spam etc. Cause at the moment its not worth laying 3 +/- mines when you can get an ap tank with upwards of 25 rounds of ammo.

HolyHandGrenade · 2012-11-07, 10:25 AM

What if:
Engineers would specialize in either anti-vehicle or anti-infantry support.
Anti-vehicle would include mines and AT/AA MANA turrets.
Anti-infantry would include a grenade launcher option that could use a variety of ammo, for example smoke or HE. They would also have anti-infantry MANA turrets.

Taking this one step further, mines/grenade launcher/etc would take up one equipment slot (possibly the grenade slot, changing it to more of a general explosives slot), while the turrets would take up the normal one, so the player could choose one path or mix and match the options. Ammo would be default and not replaceable by the other equipment. This would make engineer a much more capable support class, but they would still lack direct firepower because of their carbines.

Any way, that's just a concept I thought of real quick. This is a good thread, interesting to see if these changes will be added. Some good ideas are coming out of this!

Storn · 2012-11-07, 10:33 AM

Bump

xuur · 2012-11-07, 11:30 AM

I for one, as a dedicated eng, would love to ditch the turret gun for nearly any other option. Ive started calling them 'come kill me' turrets as thats all Ive ever really been able to accomplish with them. not enough range for AA, not enough punch for AV, not enough protection to use it for more than a quick zap and run, and I can do that much more effectively with my rifle.

if we're trying to get away from spawn camping and since thats nearly the only place I ever see them being used with any actual effect (and even then a very limited effect), giving us the option to put something else in its slot would be a welcomed change...specifically, Id love to be able to carry a mine or two and still dole out ammo to my squad.

maradine · 2012-11-07, 11:32 AM

We're still getting an A/V mana turret, i think.

Babyfark McGeez · 2012-11-07, 11:42 AM

I never really understood turrets: You make yourself immobile, glow like tim tailors house on christmas eve and you can't even use that bloody thing as a proper shield most of the time.
The only use i found for it so far is using it to block doors.

Why don't we have automatic ("spitfire") turrets in game?

xuur · 2012-11-07, 11:42 AM

well, fair enough (as far as the AV turrets). still not sure Id choose it as an option over something that doesnt bolt me to a single wide open spot to draw fire. Im far too squishy for that sort of thing.

bullet · 2012-11-07, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenclaw

Engineers + air/tanks is fine as is....

But I play infantry support engineer... ie I the guy who keeps my team stocked up on ammo.

However when we defending base against tank attack I started to realise the Engineers role is very very lacking and here are a few of my concerns.

.

Ammo Pack shares Utility slot with mines...
If you tank driver, you not gonna be thinking much about deploying mines, but as infantry support Mines are one first things you think about as you want to secure the area... however.. you cant secure a area and keep your team stocked up with ammo... and ammo is FAR more important.

I really feel Mines & Ammo pack should be seperated to different equipment slots.

Press B when you have the turret selected to switch it into an ammo pack. Even at that, I don't think mines would be much better over an ammo pack. I don't think I've ever seen one lol.

Originally Posted by Ravenclaw

MANA turrets next to useless...
Sheild on MANA turret simple don't protect you at all, its too easy to get bullet between the shield and direct to the head, to easy to flank it due to not being mobile.

I really feel MANA turrets should be scrapped and replace AI turrets, one anti-Infanty, one anti-tank and one anti-air type... and deploy upto 3 at a time.

Agreed. I maybe used the turret once and realized it was worthless, after that I never touched it again. I just use the A.C.E. for the ammo packs anymore.

It would be nice to let the engies switch out the turret so they can customize their class a little more. I just happen to think about a mortar replacement for the turret while I was reading this. I think that could be pretty cool to use.

Originally Posted by Ravenclaw

Under-Barrel Smoke Grenades...
I know these are not specific to engineers but they would be a ideal tool for a engineer if they was not so limited.

First problem is you get just 2 smoke grenade, which is not nearly enough, especially when your giving up on laser sights.

Secondly they don't restock from ammo packs.

I feel smoke grenades could be useful if we could use them more, but with these limits and sacrifices i think they are useless... I belive a change that allows smoke grenades to restock at ammo pack would really add something to a engineers ablity to support infantry front lines.

I don't know if I agree with this. Light assaults can carry smoke grenades so by that logic, they could then restock their smoke grenades at ammo packs. If you allow only X grenade to be resupplied at ammo packs, why not the rest? They would have to make the exception then to allow grenades in general to be resupplied at ammo packs since they are functionally the same. On top of that, there are also grenade launchers for rifles now too. They would have to allow those to be resupplied from ammo packs as well.

I really don't want to see anymore grenade spam in the game.

Originally Posted by Ravenclaw

If anyone else has any postive suggestion of how engineer could support infantry groups better, rather than being forced to drive a vehicle (which defeats point of infantry support) then feel free to comment.

I don't think they're quite done with the engineer yet, I hope not anyways. The PS1 engineer had access to a lot more stuff and each one had a use:

Boomers(C4)
Mines
Motion Sensors
Disrutor Mines (Jam vehicle systems preventing them from firing)
Spitfire Turrets (Automatic Turrets)
Different variations of Spitfire Turrets(AA and ones that are invisible)
Ability to upgrade base turrets(Gives them AA or AV capabilities)
Ability to place Road blocks
Ability to place shield generators in the field(Can be a shield or provide invisibility to anything inside)

Now all this stuff wasn't available at PS1 release but came in over time. A lot of the engineering stuff came as one of the last updates for PS1. I don't expect them to have all this stuff in place right now but I really hope they don't neglect this part of PS1. Additionally I hope they add newer stuff to the arsenal of the engineer to make him more unique than a guy who can place ammo packs and repair vehicles.

Ravenclaw · 2012-11-07, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by xuur

well, fair enough (as far as the AV turrets). still not sure Id choose it as an option over something that doesnt bolt me to a single wide open spot to draw fire. Im far too squishy for that sort of thing.

yea lock in place without any serious protection is totally useless

The turrets should come in 2 parts, powerfull frontal shield with no gaps that wraps around you and covers frontal flanks... this shield should be able to take a reasonable amount of damage before you or the turret starts taking hit...

This will give you chance to abandon the turret before its shield breaks.

They should also be a cooldown period on the turret so you can't spam them one after another.

flanking and rear attack however will still be very effective as they shield wont cover there.

Storn · 2012-11-07, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenclaw

yea lock in place without any serious protection is totally useless

The turrets should come in 2 parts, powerfull frontal shield with no gaps that wraps around you and covers frontal flanks... this shield should be able to take a reasonable amount of damage before you or the turret starts taking hit...

This will give you chance to abandon the turret before its shield breaks.

They should also be a cooldown period on the turret so you can't spam them one after another.

flanking and rear attack however will still be very effective as they shield wont cover there.

I agree with this completely!