The Influence system needs to go.

Miffy · 2012-12-02, 01:29 PM

Seriously it is the most boring mechanic in the game that just leads to spawn camping. All that happens for most outposts and bases is you sit by the spawn and wait there for 10 mins until you convert the base. Spawn camping isn't fun for you, especially with FF on and it isn't fun for the enemy but you have to do it or one side wins easily and walks it.

I'd much prefer a 5 min hack where it means you have to sit on the point instead of so much spawn camping. Maybe that coupled with the capture the flag type of base capture like what Planetside had so it brings the fight outside of the spawns.

There are plenty of other things to do but it means you're not doing so much sitting around until you've gained influence and so people aren't spawn camping so much. It is getting really boring fast and all I see from new people especially on forums is how the games all about spawn camping. Not only that but you capture a point and you expect to have the base, the influence system is something most people don't even realize what is going on. I remember when I first played and I got the point but it didn't show on the map and I was like WTF? Took me ages to work out what the influence system was.

Crator · 2012-12-02, 01:33 PM

Yeah, don't much care for the tug-o-war system myself I'm afraid. Much prefer the hack-n-hold with perhaps a variable that accounts for hex adjacency to dictate how long the hack will take.

Miffy · 2012-12-02, 02:35 PM

Yeah and if you put the hacking away from the spawn location you'll not be standing around the spawn while you defend you hack. It would also reward people who were defending...

Crator · 2012-12-02, 05:11 PM

Correct, attackers defending the CC are rewarded with getting some game play from the defenders spawning. The defenders also have a better chance of re-securing if they respond in time and are skilled players.

It's also a role that the traditional infiltrator could fill. Re-secure Specialist. They have said they are thinking about adding back that role.

Miffy · 2012-12-03, 09:25 AM

http://s16.postimage.org/xx2tzctw5/2012_12_03_00001.jpg

Pretty much sums up this game.

Not only does the influence system require this (though this base doesn't I'm just getting my point across) but these are the worst designed spawn rooms ever, just exposed to vehicles and having the gunner as the driver is so OP.

ShadetheDruid · 2012-12-03, 10:39 AM

How does having the driver as the gunner have anything to do with spawn rooms being really badly designed?

Nothing really to add to the topic at hand, but I love how everything gets blamed on tank driver/gunners rather than broken spawn/base capture/resource systems.

Crator · 2012-12-03, 02:30 PM

Ha, the main gunner as the driver thing was just an added extra Miffy wanted sounds like. Had to slip it in there I guess.

Calisai · 2012-12-03, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Miffy

http://s16.postimage.org/xx2tzctw5/2012_12_03_00001.jpg

Pretty much sums up this game.

Not only does the influence system require this (though this base doesn't I'm just getting my point across) but these are the worst designed spawn rooms ever, just exposed to vehicles and having the gunner as the driver is so OP.

The influence system isn't really the cause for the spawn camping. It's more the layout in the base making it easy to negate the defense and push them back to spawns.

There needs to be more exits from spawns... as well as a mix of infantry only (like the tech base teleporter from spawn to main base) as well as vehicle based (the doors on the outside of the spawn at tech). That base requires both vehicles as well as infantry combined to lock down the spawn room.

The main gunner/driver argument is moot in this particular discussion. Spawns will be camped by players because that is the most effective way to stop resistance. Whether there is a 2nd person gunning and camping the spawns doesn't matter...the spawn is still camped.

The smaller outpost spawn rooms should be designed to allow infantry a little more leeway in getting outbound and returning fire on those vehicles.

In Sony's defense... they have changed a lot of the designs over time to better promote this. For example: amerish is better than esamir which is better than indar (which is horrible)... More work has to be done, but at least there has been progress since tech test.

Calisai · 2012-12-03, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Miffy

http://s16.postimage.org/xx2tzctw5/2012_12_03_00001.jpg

Pretty much sums up this game.

Not only does the influence system require this (though this base doesn't I'm just getting my point across) but these are the worst designed spawn rooms ever, just exposed to vehicles and having the gunner as the driver is so OP.

I'm not sure the influence system really has much to do with spawn camping. PS1 had similar camping (until the gen (SCU) was blown) and it had timer-based not influence based as well as lattice lines instead of adjacency requirements.

PS1 had more interior base fights, however, that negated a lot of the vehicle fighting and required a good infantry fight for each base though. That again is base design rather than the capture mechanics being the problem.

It really comes down to the most effective way to take a base. Push back the resistance until it is negated. Whether this is by infantry or tanks doesn't matter... it's still going to happen. The goal is to make the game as fun for the defenders at this point (give them something to hold out for until the bitter end)

Maybe tunnels from the spawn room to a few of the other buildings in the area (as long as it isn't right NEXT to the control point, you still should be required to move a bit across the courtyard)

Miffy · 2012-12-03, 07:23 PM

Vehicles camp the spawns because of poor base design. I really don't understand why SOE didn't fix Vehicles being able to camp doorways.

However Spawn Camping in Planetside didn't exist because you just shot out the tubes or a gen, you had a way to stop them from spawning!

Planetside 2, you just have to sit there and spam the door which is out in the wide open until you captured.

The picture I gave was actually a well designed base where you sit on a point and capture, however most of them are influence based.

SGOniell · 2012-12-04, 09:09 PM

Yeah, influence sucks, and yeah, spawn rooms suck. The base layout needs to change, and I feel if we do have to have these awful spawns give them fire ports or a second story with more fireports, like a pillbox. Give them an easier time of pushing back

MoonLiteNite · 2012-12-11, 07:37 AM

I would like to state that the influence isn't causing spawn camping, and "spawn camping" isn't something to be "fixed"

When do you get spawn camped? When the other team gets into your base, gets into position with their tanks, bus, and turrets, and you have no other way of spawning in.
To prevent this, the moment i see a base being under attacked, i will spawn, jet pack out, and put down a squad spawn beacon, quickly go to a safe location, here or another base, and get a bus out as another means of spawning at another spot.

I never liked being spawn camped, it sucks, but really it is 100% your team's fault for letting it happen.