ADS Physics

Palerion · 2013-01-20, 03:35 PM

Okay, I'm back at it again with some more discussion about ADS Physics. Now, if you've seen later on in one of my other threads, you'll know that I'm talking about the fact that your screen shakes and flinches WAY too much from nearby explosions and damage from bullets, and the fact that most sights (mainly the open ones) have a sort of "physics" asthetic added to them which makes them sort of twist, turn, and sway as you move them while aiming down sights.

Now, the first thing that I'm going to clear up is the screen shaking: Obviously it needs to be toned down a lot. Same goes for the flinching while being shot. If it's going to take 8 bullets minimum to kill me, please don't make me spaz out every time one hits me.

Next is the physics aesthetic while aiming down sights. Mind you, I am mainly talking about lower magnification scopes, open sights, not sniper scopes. Now, when you move these sights, whether it be to track an enemy or, whatever it is you feel like doing, you'll notice that they tend to take some time to catch up to your screen. They sort of lag behind, as to create a feeling of weight or realism, and, again, jump all over your screen as explosions hit near you and bullets damage you. Though it seems like a good idea on paper, in practice, it's a huge fun-killer.

I recently decided to purchase the IR/NV scope for one of my carbines, and noticed an immediate increase in performance and confidence in my playing ability. The game felt much more fun, and much more action packed; my shots were landing on target and I was tracking my enemies with ease. You could say this is due to the fact that the IR/NV scope highlights your enemies extremely well and is "OP", but I happen to know that it is because the IR/NV scope doesn't throw your aim off with the "realistic" weight aesthetic that the other sights have. When your jump or fly while aiming down your sights, your cone of fire increases, but your sight remains where you point it, which makes sense. The same thing applies to taking damage and fighting in the heat of explosive battles; your sight remains where you point it and your cone of fire increases. This significantly decreases your ability to perform under the circumstances, but does not disorient you like making your sights sway and shake around everywhere does.

Of course I must admit I feel silly using the IR/NV sight during the day, and using it sheerly because it feels easier to aim with doesn't seem right to me, but with the other scopes being so shaky, heavy, and inconsistent, it feels like I'm better off sticking with the IR/NV for now. I don't think shaking the player's screen and making his gun feel heavy and unstable is a productive mechanic at all, and I think the current increase in the player's cone of fire is plenty sufficient to damage the player's ability to shoot accurately in the mentioned situations (explosions, damage from bullets, aiming/shooting while in the air). And, the weighted feeling of your weapon in specific while aiming down sights only disorients the player, making him have to wait for his sight to catch up to his screen before he can actually be sure that he is on target.

P.S. I was sure to make this post more legitimate than my others, with more evidence and supporting facts for my main point. I think this does a sufficient job of advocating that this mechanic may hurt the game more than it helps it.

EvilNinjadude · 2013-01-20, 03:51 PM

/sign.

Agreed. Also, scope in and jump. I dare you to try it.
Bring a vomit bag.

ShadetheDruid · 2013-01-20, 03:54 PM

What do you have your mouse sensitivity set to? I had to go look to see what you were talking about with the "heavy" feeling, because I honestly don't notice it, but I can see what you mean about the actual dot of the sight taking ever so slightly longer to move to where you aim.

Seems like it happens with higher sensitivities and not lower ones. I switched to lower for a second (I always have mine on high) and there wasn't any of that delay.

EvilNinjadude · 2013-01-20, 04:11 PM

You're not getting it? Maybe you've got different settings. But I don't mean sensitivity. That shouldn't be the cause really.

Palerion · 2013-01-20, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

What do you have your mouse sensitivity set to? I had to go look to see what you were talking about with the "heavy" feeling, because I honestly don't notice it, but I can see what you mean about the actual dot of the sight taking ever so slightly longer to move to where you aim.

Seems like it happens with higher sensitivities and not lower ones. I switched to lower for a second (I always have mine on high) and there wasn't any of that delay.

Yes, that is what I mean by the "heavy" feeling. So, obviously you have noticed it too. I personally think it is an intentional mechanic that the devs implemented, but, a counterproductive one; are you suggesting that it may not be intentional? I can't imagine that they would do this unintentionally, and on the contrary believe they simply made a mistake by adding it. I'm at the default 50% sensitivity. I personally like having higher sensitivity though, and think that at these higher sensitivities (I mean come on, it's default sensitivity) your sight should still be keeping up with where you point it. It's either an unintentional mechanic and needs to be fixed or it's an intentional, yet counterproductive, mechanic, and still needs fixing.

Rago · 2013-01-20, 04:28 PM

-Deal with it!-

Palerion · 2013-01-20, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Rago

-Deal with it!-

No reason to post if you're going to try and downplay an absolutely valid point without providing any reason or evidence.

Babyfark McGeez · 2013-01-20, 05:22 PM

You are absolutely right about the "shaky" behaviour of the reflex/open scopes, i have no idea if you can tweak anything with the settings there though.

I am no real fan of ADS aiming anyways, feels too much like wannabe-immersion to me (and like unnecessary consolero mechancis), but atleast it's now better then it was in beta (moving with ads on an uneven surface, shake it baby!).. So maybe they will improve.

I will definetely try an ir/nv scope next time i check in though, silly me thought untill now it wouldn't really serve a purpose in non-dark situations.

ShadetheDruid · 2013-01-20, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by EvilNinjadude

You're not getting it? Maybe you've got different settings. But I don't mean sensitivity. That shouldn't be the cause really.

On higher sensitivity (I have mine set to 0.70 on the in game slider, I think), yeah. I just never noticed it until it came up in this topic and I went and looked closer.

I hit it down to like 0.20 to test it, and it disappeared entirely.

Palerion · 2013-01-20, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

On higher sensitivity (I have mine set to 0.70 on the in game slider, I think), yeah. I just never noticed it until it came up in this topic and I went and looked closer.

I hit it down to like 0.20 to test it, and it disappeared entirely.

Well for many people playing on 0.20 is unbearable xD but, yeah, it is present. I don't know how setting it that low even fixes it for you, I think it is just less noticable because you aren't moving as fast. I hit it down to 0.35 and it was still there; maybe I need to go lower. Anyway, I think it may be, like you said, a bug/error with the current ADS function. I guess I'll shoot an email to SOE, or whatever it is you do to report bugs, in hopes that they fix it soon. It would make gameplay a lot more smooth with these open scopes if they would get this fixed. I even notice it when I watch youtube videos; surprised nobody has really bothered to mention it.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-01-20, 08:20 PM

I cant say for sure but do you look around slower while using the nv scope? This might just be a limit on how fast your gun can "swing".

StumpyTheOzzie · 2013-01-20, 08:28 PM

I know I do better with IRNV scope. I don't know why though, maybe it's this.

It just feels "better" than any other scope

Palerion · 2013-01-20, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

I cant say for sure but do you look around slower while using the nv scope? This might just be a limit on how fast your gun can "swing".

I don't think this is the case. The IRNV scope is a "closed" scope, meaning you can not see around it while you are aiming, only through it. This issue only applies to open scopes, as the issue we are talking about is that the scope seems to actually be moving behind, or at a slower rate, than the camera when the player moves it. With the IRNV scope, the crosshair seems to always be at the center of the screen, no matter how fast you turn. Hopefully when this is fixed, all sights will work as smoothly as the IRNV.

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

I know I do better with IRNV scope. I don't know why though, maybe it's this.

It just feels "better" than any other scope

I know, right? xD

SturmovikDrakon · 2013-01-20, 08:55 PM

IRNV scope, and any scope above x6, feel "better" because they're completely static, like an image.

IRNV scope is also causing an issue because it's much easier to bunny hop with it since it's always in place and doesn't bounce around

They need to go the battlefield route with their high powered scopes and make them move and animate around

If you don't get what I mean, watch this video

ignore the music, this is the first video that popped up for me that demonstrates what I mean

Notice how looking down the scope it moves around constantly when he moves left and right or shoots and reloads

just to show that the sights aren't actually there

How hard do you guys figure it would be to make it that way?

But on topic I do think flinching and screenshaking need to be toned down a lot

Chewy · 2013-01-20, 09:05 PM

I like the fact that getting shot and having something blow the fuck up next to you messing with ADS. It's MUCH better than what BF3 did with suppression and that crap RBS (random bullet spread).

If PS2 was just another arcade shooter then I wouldn't be playing it. I LOVE these little things like bullets hurting, explosions being explosions, and having to watch your footing. These are not mere inconveniences here. They fucking HURT! I for one say thanks to the devs for adding stuff like this in the game. If you can't handle it, then learn to avoid getting shot and to think about where/when to fight your battles.

Can anyone really tell me that they know of someone that can hold a fully loaded weapon steady with shit happening around and to them? I know I can't, and I have many gun nuts in my family with years in the military each. Hell, my heart rate alone can affect my shooting if not prone with a bipod. There's no telling how shit Id be with a bullet in me or an explosion going off.