Higby on Tank Balance - Page 11

Dkamanus · 2013-02-02, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by superseohyun

really？ your argument is your personal experience?

anyway, prowler indeed is a great tank.like higby said, prowler only perform slightly under MAG when you take anti-infantry into consideration. It just sucks as a MBT.

i think the vanguard need the most buff. It cant deal with MAG where most tank fight take place, and cant deal with infantry nearly as good as a prowler.

That is quite true. I decided to use my HE cannon yesterday against some target that were attacking tawrich. I don't remember having such a hard time killing infantry as yesterday. Splash damage close to the infantry wasn't killing it as reliably as before, only direct hits. Felt our Titan-HE so underwhelming that I think I won't be using it for some time now.

Still, one thing that bugs me is the fact that now the prowler is the most hard hitting tank of em all, totally contrary to the NC belief. Specially since we have the slowest reload of em all. As said, good prowler driver will make the Prowler way much deadlier at close range, even with the normalization of the Vulcan.

In the Vanguard's defense, we must remember that it is a solid tank that can do decent close and long range combat. While the prowler excels at close and the magrider at range, Vanguards seem to be much more in between now. With the velocity increase of the Enforcer, even with the drop, this will add MUCH more killing power at range, which was something the enforcer was lacking.

Probably the drop will be smaller then the Halberd (which has a BIG drop), making still the Enforcer much more prefered as a long range combat secondary gun.

ChipMHazard · 2013-02-02, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by Mietz

The game is asymmetrical, not every tank needs to do the same thing. If the Prowler is the best AI tank (which it isn't exclusively from my experience) so be it, no problem.

No, but they do need to able to handle the same thing. They are MBTs and as such they should be able to handle other MBTs. Differently, yes but they should also be equally effecient at it.

If the Prowler was meant as an anti-infantry tank then it should have been designed to be such, which would make the lightning even more useless for the TR... Or perhaps the other way around.
Besides, what use is an anti-infantry focused tank in a fight against other tanks that are designed to take out your tank?

Assist · 2013-02-02, 10:30 AM

lol, nerfed anyways. Rather than writing a long winded post, again, I'll just say the balancing team is the biggest joke in PvP gaming history.

At least I got a fucking sticker I can buy; stick a poodle on my Magrider so people know it's me when I still run 200:1 k/d
Hopefully one day you balance the game rather than just making it more fucking annoying to play.

PeanutMF · 2013-02-02, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

What a silly question? They were of course made to be the backbone in any groundbased engagement. That does not mean that, that is all they are good for.

It was a response to the invention of tanks in general, not specifically gameplay related. Stating that why would people create something that is made to counter itself only.

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

All MBTs are more than capable of dealing with infantry. The only real reason as to why the Prowler is better at killing infantry is because of its dual barrels. When other MBTs fire at infantry it's just overkill, when Prowlers fire it's less overkill times 2, as in you can apply the max damage across a larger area faster than any other MBT. Why do you think that they want to change The Vanguard's long range capabilities against the Magrider?

I'm failing to understand this paragraph though. The Prowler does the same splash damage as the other tanks so by your definition it would be "same overkill x2"? Unless you try to direct hit infantry all the time in the Prowler. I also have no clue how talking about anti-infantry capabilities of the Prowler segues into reasoning behind Vanguard vs Magrider changes.

Unless you are responding to my post in chronological order, then in which case I know that's what it's for; I'm not retarded. I'm just stating that's what I think the Vanguard needs regardless of what is in store in the patch. If not then I am at a loss.

Also if you only take into account the cannons of the Vanguard and Mag then I would agree they are equal however the mobility of the Mag allows it to get in all sorts of places and chase down infantry in tighter areas, as well as the chassis stability allowing it to make quick shots against infantry while moving/regardless of terrain. Personally I wouldn't consider the heavier armour of the Vanguard as an advantage given the likelihood of infantry flanking in such situations.

Also I know that is has been iterated many times before by many a Vanu player and is probably a tired statement but the Saron is not easy to snipe infantry with unless they are either completely still or not moving laterally compared to the gunner. If it takes more than 1 shot to kill infantry with a Saron to me that's wasted ammo, and it's not easy to do consistently.

ChipMHazard · 2013-02-02, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by PeanutMF

It was a response to the invention of tanks in general, not specifically gameplay related. Stating that why would people create something that is made to counter itself only.

This isn't about the MBTs only being able to counter each other, but for the ability to defeat enemy armor, more specifically enemy MBTs, to be its primary goal. Basicly just like in real-life.

Originally Posted by PeanutMF

I'm failing to understand this paragraph though. The Prowler does the same splash damage as the other tanks so by your definition it would be "same overkill x2"? Unless you try to direct hit infantry all the time in the Prowler. I also have no clue how talking about anti-infantry capabilities of the Prowler segues into reasoning behind Vanguard vs Magrider changes.

Unless you are responding to my post in chronological order, then in which case I know that's what it's for; I'm not retarded. I'm just stating that's what I think the Vanguard needs regardless of what is in store in the patch. If not then I am at a loss.

Also if you only take into account the cannons of the Vanguard and Mag then I would agree they are equal however the mobility of the Mag allows it to get in all sorts of places and chase down infantry in tighter areas, as well as the chassis stability allowing it to make quick shots against infantry while moving/regardless of terrain. Personally I wouldn't consider the heavier armour of the Vanguard as an advantage given the likelihood of infantry flanking in such situations.

Also I know that is has been iterated many times before by many a Vanu player and is probably a tired statement but the Saron is not easy to snipe infantry with unless they are either completely still or not moving laterally compared to the gunner. If it takes more than 1 shot to kill infantry with a Saron to me that's wasted ammo, and it's not easy to do consistently.

Ah, now that PSU is running well again I can make my reply.

Probably just my unclear phrasing, I'm suffering abit from a headache atm. so if I am being too unclear about something I would certainly like to clarify it. You're right the Prowler rounds deal the same indirect damage as the rest, it just has two rounds available.
My comment about the Vanguard was centered on your comment that the Vanguard was argueable the weakest tank. It doesn't have anything to do with the Prowler.

"This is probably what makes the Vanguard overall the weakest tank (imo) since it's mediocre at anti-infantry and its anti-tank ability is still bested by the magrider at all ranges except close up."

That's why I wrote that, that is why they are making the Vanguard stronger against ranged targets. And yes I was trying to reply to your comment in order and I agree that the Vanguard needed the buffs that it recieved, this making it better at being a tank... I never referred to you as being retarded:/

Yes, I was just referring to the damage capabilities of each tank. There are of course many more variables that come into play when fighting infantry. Are you in the open or inside a facility: Where the Magrider might run into problems with turning, and where the Vanguard would as you wrote get flanked. If fighting in the open it's another story, here the Magrider's mobility would come into play more. So I mostly agree with you.

Easier than any other secondary weapon I would wager, which apparently was the crux of the matter.

Plissket · 2013-02-02, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by Rago

When i get into close Combat with a TR Prowler or a NC Vanguard, most of the Time we do not survive.

I just got into close combat with a vanguard I spotted chasing a badly damaged Mag, I assume the mag got some shots off, but I don't know.

I do know that I got two hits into the vanguard's side (I saw no extra armour, assuming that it has that bolt on metal graphic?) before it responded, I did miss once but apart from that I was firing as fast as I could into its side, and they were firing as fast as they could into my front at close range.

I died, the vanguard still had 40% health left

On the bright side it was a good excuse to log off I guess.

I think getting close with another tank is an instant death sentence now with a mag, because we are too slow to run away and we need to out number the enemy 2-1 to be able to win any sort of slugging match. Since there are not many wide open places I don't see the mag doing so well now. As a activity most of the time sniping at range is normally a great way to waste time since people just duck behind cover and repair back up, so I don't see it as a fantastic advantage that one of its guns has no bullet drop.

The mag was the best tank imo before this patch, although its more my playstyle I think since I've always used one in PS1, but I had a bad feeling when I did see the patch notes had so many changes to the same area at once. Even if this was the correct change I question the wisdom to make all the changes in one go rather then one at a time seeing their effect individually.

ChipMHazard · 2013-02-02, 08:00 PM

There's a bug with the Magriders strafing atm. They aren't supposed to move any slower, except for their hill climbing advantage, they are going to fix it.