True 3 person Liberator. Making the backseat more useful.

Rothnang · 2013-02-03, 01:42 PM

Currently most Liberators fly with 2 people, because in any situation where you really need the back gun it's not overly difficult for the bellygunner to just switch positions.
There are some exceptions, where 3 people Liberators are effective, such as using a Bulldog as the back gun, or anti-air Liberators that carry a shredder, but even then you could argue that A 2 person Liberator and a Fighter are a much better use of 3 people than a 3 person Liberator.

I have a few ideas that could make the tailgunner position more important, and more involved.

For one, Liberators should come with a Tailgunner utility slot that contains items like Fire Supression or Flares. The Pilot can no longer activate these items, they can only be used if someone activates them from the tailgun, and that makes it much more dangerous to fly without a third person that is in that position full time. That is both a buff to Liberators that have 3 people, and a nerf to Liberators that don't have 3 people, so it makes the tailgun position a lot more desirable.

It would also help if the tailgunner and also Bellygunner were able to visually communicate to the Pilot where they want the aircraft to turn, by using their WASD keys. Instead of being an actual movement option those keys would be used to ping the pilot in that direction, telling him to nose up, down, roll left or right. Hitting them would simply make a little arrow appear on the Pilots HUD to tell him where his gunners want to be looking.

Another thing that would make the Tailgun position a lot more desirable is if the tailgunner would be able to control special weapons like wire guided missiles, gravity bombs or some sort of other armament that would have very little ammunition, or a long cooldown, but can lend some additional firepower to the aircraft. Wire guided missiles would be a very strong option to make the tailgun position more involved, because the thing that makes the tailgun boring is that it's simply not being used much unless you are under fighter attack. Giving the person in the tailgun something else to do when there are no fighters would make it much more rewarding and a lot less boring to fly in that position. Also if the person in the tailgun always has something to do there is a much better reason to have someone sit in it at all times. This has to be done in a balanced way of course, these rockets shouldn't be terribly strong by themselves, maybe the equivalent of an HAs rockets in terms of damage. They just need to give the tailgunner something to do that's useful without being out of control.

Memeotis · 2013-02-08, 06:20 AM

Yeah, the third seat in a Liberator is quite dull. I think something they ought to add would be the ability to switch between two weapons, with the second weapon-types not designed to deal damage.

This second weapon could be a flashbang-cannon, which can only shoot one round at a time before it has to reload, and for it to be effective it would have to hit an aircraft on the nose in order to blind the pilot.

Another idea could be a smoke-grenade launcher, which would be attached so that when you switch to it, you would be facing the ground. This way, the third gunner, although it's a slightly more passive role, would have something to do while the Liberator is just hovering above a battlefield with no aerial threats.

Rothnang · 2013-02-08, 08:43 AM

You wouldn't really get XP for putting smoke on the enemies, not to mention, your bellygunner would complain about not being able to see them anymore.

The tailgunner has to be worth bringing along, and he has to have something to do that gives XP.

Memeotis · 2013-02-09, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

You wouldn't really get XP for putting smoke on the enemies, not to mention, your bellygunner would complain about not being able to see them anymore.

The tailgunner has to be worth bringing along, and he has to have something to do that gives XP.

Deploying smoke from above could be an amazing asset for ground troops, and as for XP, smoke could easily be reconfigured to give XP to the gunner in-directly. For example:

Around the point of impact there could be a 20 meter sphere of "assistance", which would last for however long the smoke is deployed. Any enemy killed within this sphere would yield 10% of his worth to the tail-gunner. Alternatively, this could also be applied to friendlies within the sphere, and for every kill or revive done by friendlies within the smoke, the gunner would also receive assist-points.

Rothnang · 2013-02-09, 01:00 PM

Smoke bombing entire areas doesn't solve any of the problems the Liberator has, and honestly just isn't that much help to ground troops, it just forces everyone to roll with a thermal sight if they want to see anything.

Memeotis · 2013-02-12, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Rothnang

Smoke bombing entire areas doesn't solve any of the problems the Liberator has, and honestly just isn't that much help to ground troops, it just forces everyone to roll with a thermal sight if they want to see anything.

I'm not trying to "solve" any type of balance issue, I'm just trying to come up with ideas for what the tail gunner can do, when there's not ESFs to fend off. And I for one think it could be pretty cool to call down a blanket of smoke, as you advance with your squad on the ground.

Rothnang · 2013-02-12, 11:29 AM

It would be a possibility, I just don't think "smoke machine" is going to be a satisfying job for very long, and probably garner you a lot of hate from anyone on the ground who doesn't want to fight in smoke.

Obstruction · 2013-02-20, 02:29 AM

we just put a LA in the tail and boot him out over stuff he'll want to kill and/or blow up.

Sirisian · 2013-02-20, 02:00 PM

The guided rocket idea has been brought up a few times. I think that's a good compromise. Giving them wire guided rockets or camera guided would be ideal I think with a nice view.

I usually fly with a single other person that switches to the tail gunner position. I'd also be fine with switching the vehicle to a two person vehicle and removing the third seat and implementing a separate switch system for the gunner to use the tailgun as a secondary gun. Instant switch time would be nice especially for pairs that fly libs a lot.

Rothnang · 2013-02-20, 02:51 PM

It would be cool if you could have universal gunner seats that allow you to look in any direction you want, and aim whatever weapons have an arc where you are looking. That way small defensive weapons all over the vehicle wouldn't be such a drag to use anymore.