Why It Doesn't Matter Whether We Have Links or Hexes...

[NewSith]

So, I hink we've all seen the new WIP. The problem I see with it is that links will automatically cut off the possibility of implementation of a whole level of metagame.


What I imply is following, let's take Company of Heroes for example. Being on a friendly territory gives you certain abilities, or to put it properly being on an enemy, neutral or unconnected territory gives you penalties.

Here're the examples:

• You can only build defensive structures on a friendly territory.
• You cannot upgrade buildings outside friendly territory.
• You cannot upgrade units outside friendly territory.
• Certain units (British) move slower on enemy territory unless they have a commander unit with them.
• Certain abilities, like Scorched Earth (Automated Artillery working for a certain period of time, hitting enemies) only work on friendly territory.

...and so forth... There were certain units and companies (a-la generals from CnC Generals) that specialized entirely in fighting on enemy territory, like Airborne Company for Americans, Royal Commandos Support for Brits, etc. Now PlanetSide 2 doesn't unfold the territories potential at all, that's why people only see territories as something tied only to resources.

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The removal of territories can completely eradicate such interesting concepts as territory denial or, hell even outfit benefits and facility ownership. Let's take a look at what we'll never get then:

• AMS having a longer spawn timner on an enemy territory.
• Squad Spawning only available on enemy territories for specialized outfits.
• Special Facilitiy upgrades
  • Reducing 2D/3D spotting time on the territory
  • Reucing respawn time on the territory
  • Adding territory radar
  • ...etc
• Special Commander abilities, tied to territory
• CE metagame, like having some CE deployable only outside enemy territory, like say MANA turrets or special terminals...
• ...and opening the ability via Outfit specialization.

I can come up with lots of stuff on this matter, but there's one final point. The new small hexes allow territory to be set by them and not just be radial, like in PS1 with its SOI's. This means that the benefits mentioned above will be valid on the whole entirety of the frontline.


TL;DR Think twice before embracing the Good Ol' Lattice, represented by links instead of hexes.

[Phantomdestiny]

they could work out an algorithm which adds the SOI of basses together and fill the gaps around the front line . also it would be more organic than the hex SOI were you quickly move from territory to territory. But obviously this doesn't seem simple

[Punker]

Was just going to say something about the SOI, but you beat me to it.

What phantom said.

[NewSith]

I just fail to see why they need to break a simple system, to create an even simpler system, but with handicaps, to later implement an extremely complex system, that would only turn away new players. This is what one of the problems of PS1 was, it was way too complex where it shouldn't have been.


EDIT: Besides if they do the first 2 steps, I doubt they will EVER go for the third one (the one with the complex system). They are not renown for this.

[Punker]

So you can still have enemy and friendly territory, from a TR perspective, blue and purple areas are enemy territories. Red is friendly. One small adjustment to sharpening the gradient and you have something that works better than the hex system ever could.

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by Punker

So you can still have enemy and friendly territory, from a TR perspective, blue and purple areas are enemy territories. Red is friendly. One small adjustment to sharpening the gradient and you have something that works better than the hex system ever could.

Okay, now plese draw the line where TR territory ends and NC/VS territory starts... Give me a clear definition on where I exit my land and enter enemy's.

[Punker]

Originally Posted by Punker

One small adjustment to sharpening the gradient and you have something that works better than the hex system ever could.

Please draw a line around what you didn't read.

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by Punker

Please draw a line around what you didn't read.

Sharpening the gradient won't do at all. Because the line is still gonna be blurry. And by your one smal adjustment I assume you don't mean drawing a stroke between the territories, since the hex system does exactly the same.

So, please, don't accuse me of not reading what you said, because what you said was pretty much a double standard.

[Punker]

I'm pretty sure you're drawing a stroke. Didn't mean to be so harsh and shut you down like that but you're arguing semantics. Yes your grand little idea can work with both systems so this entire thread is essentially you saying you like the hex system better, just because.

[AThreatToYou]

The new lattice doesn't mean we can't have territory. While it doesn't functionally matter whether or not we have lattice, we should get either SOI on bases or clearly defined territorial lines if we do get the new lattice.

Personally I'm in favor of using hexes for territory, but lattice for base links. Facilities (bio labs/amp station/interlink/tech plant) should be linked only by lattice. Smaller bases like The Crown and The Stronghold can keep the hex-based territorial capture method.

- No lattice link to a facility, no facility capture.
- We can experiment with whether or not hex-linked bases are capture without a link. Personally I am in favor of letting outposts be open to capture. This is so the attackers can move on after disabling a facility and are waiting for capture.
- Hex-bases must be linked to a facility in order to send/receive resources. Facilities must be linked to the warpgate via the hex system in order to send-receive resources. Facility benefits stretch based on hex (territory) connections.

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by Punker

I'm pretty sure you're drawing a stroke. Didn't mean to be so harsh and shut you down like that but you're arguing semantics. Yes your grand little idea can work with both systems so this entire thread is essentially you saying you like the hex system better, just because.

No, I'm just saying that there's absolutely no point in rebuiling something that is already appealing enough. Plus I'm saying that knowing SOE, they will (if they didn't already) abandon the idea of territories once they their WIP goes live.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by NewSith

Okay, now plese draw the line where TR territory ends and NC/VS territory starts... Give me a clear definition on where I exit my land and enter enemy's.

Agreed. That is something that I do want to change. They didn't have to remove the hexes entirely, could still have used them as a way to better define borders, UI wise.
I don't like how the areas blend into each other. Altough being colour blind I am biased in this respect

I can certainly see your point about the possibilities tied in with having territories, Sith. Not sure I really care what system they go with though, as long as they pick one and stick with it. The current hex system has potential, which has yet to be tapped.
I'm sure they will add in an AOI if needed, which I do hope becomes needed in some fashion. But still, the game is very far away from being able to expand on either with player placed/owned buildings, special buildings that give benefits to an area (Like a radar dish) etc.

[Carbon Copied]

I think the end result will be that the territory boundaries between factions are going to go on the "territory control" tick box filter; I'd be very suprised if they don't.. as although the lattice lines give a good push/pull direction without the need for the individual hex blocks it doesn't give a clear front line to some.

Changing colour intensity will probably help (I'm partially colour blind and have to have them on primary Red/Blue/Dark Purple in order to see them more clearly on the map/HUD); but a hexed zig-zag line will just help define it I think along with the lattice lines. I do like what they've done though.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by NewSith

This is what one of the problems of PS1 was, it was way too complex where it shouldn't have been.

What was complex about PS1?

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by Baneblade

What was complex about PS1?

Let's just put it this way - I doubt that your very first acquaintance with PlanetSide 1 was in any way resembling your first time with any game of, say, BF series. Or, if you like it more that way, UT2004's (and further) Assault/Onsluaght modes.


The way the lattice worked, the inventory tetris, the certs, the objectives (Generators, CCs), inter-continental travel, it was all VERY hard to swallow at once, while the information itself was essential to just play the game properly. And what I mean was complex, is not the presence of the aspects, but their presentation.