MLG Thoughts and Feedback

Hamma · 2013-07-01, 09:53 PM

I was reading over this thread: (I almost never read Reddit but it caught my eye)
http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/c...ormed_casters/

This thread is more for folks who are somewhat interested in MLG. I know that thoughts are really strong on the matter and lots of folks are strongly against it and that is fine. Just don't come into this thread and rage out on the whole idea

MLG is happening, it's 100% inevitable now if thats not apparent. Battle islands, leaderboard systems, flying out Outfit Leaders to events etc etc etc.

I have a unique perspective now I know many of the people involved in this whole thing and I've been to three MLG Championships so far. I was skeptical at first but now I am excited to see what comes out of it. I want to see PlanetSide 2 on that big stage and see the teams I know and respect from the community fight it out for bragging rights and maybe even money. I want to see what happens when tried and true outfits face outfits just simply built for eSports.

All of that being said I went somewhat off topic. I like both Jax and Goldenboy and don't want to dig into whether or not they are good casters. What I really want to dig into is what do YOU want to get out of a competitive stream? Do you think the current style is good or would you like to see it done differently than other streams?

Edfishy · 2013-07-01, 10:19 PM

I enjoyed watching the recent Starcraft 2 tournaments. Perhaps look to those for casting tips?

Gotta admit I haven't watched any serious competitive streams of PS2 yet.

Hamma · 2013-07-01, 10:21 PM

Here's some stuff for reference:

torokokill · 2013-07-01, 10:24 PM

I haven't watched too many of the war reports, I cannot make any comment on the casting. A competitive format of this size really hasn't been casted before. PS2 is forging new territory; I imagine we'll hit a few bumps along the way. In other games, casting is meant to entertain the audience and help explain the game to people who don't know all the inner-workings of the game.

That being said, I find myself a little disinterested when outfits not on my server are showcased. Nor am I the type of person to roll alts on other servers just to get my 5 seconds of observer camera fame. Edit: I suck at server locations.

An observer mode HUD would help me enjoy the stream a bit more. There was one instance on Friday night in which the person controlling the observer camera had to spot a VS player inside of an amp station to see their name. Not only was this not visible by default, but I think the observer may have spotted the player out for his faction as the player got jumped on almost immediately after. Not too worried, I imagine an observer mode HUD is in the works.

I feel a little disconnected from the fight when the observer just flies around in third person. I would absolutely love a mix of first-person and third-person modes, but I highly doubt it would be easy to implement a first-person observer mode.

DirtyBird · 2013-07-01, 10:25 PM

Seeing as you assist in the promotion of PS2 at MLG you might be able to answer this.
Is participation in MLG, from a PS2 perspective, restricted to continental USA only?

Hamma · 2013-07-01, 10:35 PM

No idea what the answer to that is sorry

A better observer cam is definitely on the way, it's pretty much a pre-requisite for real streaming as far as I am concerned.

Mordelicius · 2013-07-01, 11:51 PM

They don't like Jax only because he's NC, that's all.

I'm seen him and TIW roll in Waterson. They are effective, fast, strong and quite stand up. When you ask for reinforcements they come and will gladly lead or help in fights.

As for the casting, I don't see any bias at all. He's not even playing while casting. The thing is, the guy is fairly knowledgeable with PS2.

I haven't seen GoldenBoy yet in Waterson though. He tries to make it interesting, but needs to brush up on his knowledge on PS2 and community. I remember his confusing VREV (VS) for DREV (NC) on and on. On one of the last cast, he's calling Vanguard like Lightning

SternLX · 2013-07-02, 12:13 AM

I'm all for PS2 in Pro e-Sports. I want to see whole team efforts, not just focus on a single person like most Pro e-sport games do now. Good ole American Football for example... focus is on the team effort with little highlights showing off an individuals outstanding plays. Sure the games have an MVP program but it's not about that, it's about the Team that wins. That kinda thing is what e-sports should be.

Unfortunately the Current generation Z being the "Me me me generation" sees it differently.

As for the format. It works so far but as already pointed out, Observer cam needs more work to make watching more compelling.

Rolfski · 2013-07-02, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Mordelicius

As for the casting, I don't see any bias at all. He's not even playing while casting. The thing is, the guy is fairly knowledgeable with PS2.

I haven't seen GoldenBoy yet in Waterson though. He tries to make it interesting, but needs to brush up on his knowledge on PS2 and community.

+1

I don't see the problems brought up in that reddit topic. Jax's commentary is not that biased and GoldenBoy already announced that he will improve on his knowledge and play the game more. Both are good casters and there's something to say for a format where one asks the questions and the expert analyst answers them.

As for MLG/eSports in general, I'm particularly interested in what it will do for the Chinese and the upcoming Russian and Latin community. World wide competitions could potentially give a big boost to the game.

Hamma · 2013-07-02, 12:24 AM

So in terms of casting, do you guys think two people cut it to track a 48 vs 48 match?

bpostal · 2013-07-02, 12:27 AM

I've been watching some of the MLG stuff recently and while I like what I see, I have to agree with reddit. If PS2 wants to put on it's game face then it doesn't need casters, however top notch they are, it needs Planetside players. It's nothing against the current casters but it almost feels too professional. These are busy guys who may or may not be leading platoons day in and day out. PS2 MLG needs to grow from the game, and for that it needs to be cast by someone who can look at a MAX crash and see how that particular fight fits in overall.
Without the ability for someone watching to 'latch' on to a specific player or outfit the streams and commentary is limited to the observer cam. It's a great tool, no doubt but it does have it's limitations. One of the observer cam's strengths though is that it can 'zoom out' and show the overall effort. For that kind of viewing experience we need a different casting style. One not so much focused on specific players but on the overarching shit that's going down.
The casters set the tone for the entire show and IMHO, these guys need to quit their day jobs, get drunk and do nothing but play Planetside 2 for a few weeks. They need to nerd it up, lead platoons, talk on leader chat. Just go out and get into the nitty gritty, the obscure and the strategy. Then they shall be ready to cast.\

EDIT: In response to your question Hamma, Hell no two people ain't gonna cut it. Maybe to cast it sure, but they'll need at least a half dozen camera guys to ensure the best vantage point while still covering ancillary areas in case of random bad ass.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-07-02, 12:37 AM

This game really looks good up close and personal. They really need to be able to latch onto anyone at any time in a third person view.

*Its going to be difficult on the casters figuring out how to use a NEW observer mode when the games start. SOE needs to release these new view cam tools asap.

Rolfski · 2013-07-02, 12:44 AM

2 Casters, a bunch of camera men and a BR 100 director to decide which footage is shown, is what we need.

DirtyBird · 2013-07-02, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by bpostal

In response to your question Hamma, Hell no two people ain't gonna cut it. Maybe to cast it sure, but they'll need at least a half dozen camera guys to ensure the best vantage point while still covering ancillary areas in case of random bad ass.

I tend to agree with bpostal.
Even in Tribes we had two casters to cover both teams a fraction of the size of this (10v10) and they still missed things now and then.

Do they currently have someone directing them to specific events in game to cover or are they just randomly rambling on about stuff just for the sake of being heard?

Add more cameras and some direction.

LoliLoveFart · 2013-07-02, 02:18 AM

Two casters is fine but they would have to know their shit otherwise people will just stop watching if they are umming and awwing all the time. Going to need a bunch of guys scattered around in observer cam to capture the fights from good angles, and assuming the casters don't get into individual players but focus on troop movement and strategies they can see forming, I don't see why it wouldn't work.