Customization Woes - Page 10

ArmedZealot · 2012-05-06, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm

Please explain how you are expecting them to treat you differently then.

Because you are willing to pay to make me look different than what I want to look. If you didn't care so much then you wouldn't be proposing this.

If I want to pay to look like an asshat, then players would treat me like an asshat. If I want to pay to look like I am super serious about then game, then I want to be treated like I am super serious about the game. If players who "didn't care" really didn't then why would skins be a market in the first place?

Kipper · 2012-05-06, 01:53 PM

The value of anything to a buyer is only what they'd be willing to any for it. If they value it equal to or higher than the asking price, they will buy it. If the asking price is too much, they won't.

Knowing that people see these things increases their value - because that s the ONLY purpose they serve to the buyer. Knowing that % of users won't see it decreases it's value.

We're not talking about buying a new gun which gives some gameplay difference since those items will be purchasable for resources, we are talking purely about cosmetic items. If you remove that function, they have nothing else - no other function - ergo, they have zero value.

I've said it before and will again, if your $10 purchase negates my $20 purchase (or 10 other players $2 purchase) then it does not make economic / business sense to offer it.

LostAlgorithm · 2012-05-06, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

Because you are willing to pay to make me look different than what I want to look. If you didn't care so much then you wouldn't be proposing this.

I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at with this.

Are you saying I would be jealous? For me, it's a matter of taste, not money. And if a person did buy it for reasons of jealousy, then they are still paying money to support the game. Once they get the money they might buy the skin as well and then unhide it. How does this affect you at all either way? Does it really matter as long as the game is continuing to be supported?

And you wouldn't look different to anyone other than myself. I care for my own personal gameplay experience, not because I want to slight you in any way. I would only block skins I personally felt didn't belong in the game. If I was forced to deal with and see them, they wouldn't improve my gameplay experience in any way. They'd simply make me wonder why the devs made such an, in my opinion, poor decision.

If players who "didn't care" really didn't then why would skins be a market in the first place?

I don't care what you personally do, I care about experiencing Planetside the way I want to. That is, exclusively Empire colors and no crazy customizations. That's all.

ArmedZealot · 2012-05-06, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm

And you wouldn't look different to anyone other than myself. I care for my own personal gameplay experience, not because I want to slight you in any way. I would only block skins I personally felt didn't belong in the game. If I was forced to deal with and see them, they wouldn't improve my gameplay experience in any way. They'd simply make me wonder why the devs made such an, in my opinion, poor decision.

What if you were an outfit leader? What If I was trying to impress you with my dedication to the game by buying my super serious skin? Or if I wanted to piss you off by buying a "I <3 TR" shirt when I play Vanu.

You may or may not have turned those options off. I wouldn't know you had or hadn't because you wouldn't have told anyone. But the money I might spend might be effectively useless. So I just won't buy anything in the first place.

If you were forced to deal with me it wouldn't make a difference because you "don't care", as you admit. But I still would have spent my money.

LostAlgorithm · 2012-05-06, 02:04 PM

The value of anything to a buyer is only what they'd be willing to any for it. If they value it equal to or higher than the asking price, they will buy it. If the asking price is too much, they won't.

Knowing that people see these things increases their value - because that s the ONLY purpose they serve to the buyer. Knowing that % of users won't see it decreases it's value.

We're not talking about buying a new gun which gives some gameplay difference since those items will be purchasable for resources, we are talking purely about cosmetic items. If you remove that function, they have nothing else - no other function - ergo, they have zero value.

I've said it before and will again, if your $10 purchase negates my $20 purchase (or 10 other players $2 purchase) then it does not make economic / business sense to offer it.

Again, you seem to make it an all or nothing proposition. I'm not going to be impressed by your purchase, I'm not going to care about it other than the fact that it decrease my own enjoyment of the game. There is no value coming from someone who would hide the skin in the first place.

And you will never have a zero value situation as there will always be other players who enjoy the skin you've bought and will have it enabled. Those are the only people you'd be gaining value from in the first place.

You neither lose nor gain anything from such an option while those who dislike the skins do gain something. It's a pure gain towards the overall enjoyment of the game by all players.

Sledgecrushr · 2012-05-06, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm

I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at with this.

Are you saying I would be jealous? For me, it's a matter of taste, not money. And if a person did buy it for reasons of jealousy, then they are still paying money to support the game. Once they get the money they might buy the skin as well and then unhide it. How does this affect you at all either way? Does it really matter as long as the game is continuing to be supported?

And you wouldn't look different to anyone other than myself. I care for my own personal gameplay experience, not because I want to slight you in any way. I would only block skins I personally felt didn't belong in the game. If I was forced to deal with and see them, they wouldn't improve my gameplay experience in any way. They'd simply make me wonder why the devs made such an, in my opinion, poor decision.

I don't care what you personally do, I care about experiencing Planetside the way I want to. That is, exclusively Empire colors and no crazy customizations. That's all.

Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm

Again, you seem to make it an all or nothing proposition. I'm not going to be impressed by your purchase, I'm not going to care about it other than the fact that it decrease my own enjoyment of the game. There is no value coming from someone who would hide the skin in the first place.

And you will never have a zero value situation as there will always be other players who enjoy the skin you've bought and will have it enabled. Those are the only people you'd be gaining value from in the first place.

You neither lose nor gain anything from such an option while those who dislike the skins do gain something. It's a pure gain towards the overall enjoyment of the game by all players.

If you think you are going to see the same little army men all in the same uniforms I am afraid you are going to be disappointed.

LostAlgorithm · 2012-05-06, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

What if you were an outfit leader? What If I was trying to impress you with my dedication to the game by buying my super serious skin?

Obviously you failed at impressing me then and shouldn't have made such a poor decision based on your perception of a single other player's tastes. It's not the developer's job to protect you from poorly spending your money by forcing people to deal with you choices regardless.

Or if I wanted to piss you off by buying a "I <3 TR" shirt when I play Vanu.

Again, I don't consider trolling a valid reason to force people either. The ones who enjoy a little inter-faction rivalry fun wouldn't hide it.

You wouldn't know I had because you may or may not have turned those options off. I wouldn't know you had or hadn't because you wouldn't have told anyone. But they money I might spend might be effectively useless. So I just won't buy anything in the first place.

You should just buy stuff you enjoy and stop caring what other people think. Maybe you SHOULDN'T be spending $10 for something as situational as a skin to impress a single person or a skin that's used to grief.

If you were forced to deal with me it wouldn't make a difference, as you admit. But I still would have spent my money.

And it would still be as much of a waste.

If you think you are going to see the same little army men all in the same uniforms I am afraid you are going to be disappointed

I just want Empire colors and no crazy stuff like Santa hats, Kitty Ears, etc. I really don't think it's that much to ask.

ArmedZealot · 2012-05-06, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm

I just want Empire colors and no crazy stuff like Santa hats, Kitty Ears, etc. I really don't think it's that much to ask.

I don't think it's too much to ask to go easy on that stuff, but just be realistic. It's a game, one that many will play, and as such has to cater to more than the people that think like you.

And I just want to spend my money, I don't really care if you think it is wasteful or not. Your opinion of what I spend my money on isn't terribly important. What is, is how much money devs make off skins.

LostAlgorithm · 2012-05-06, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by ArmedZealot

I don't think it's too much to ask to go easy on that stuff. But just be realistic. It's a game, one that many will play, and as such has to cater to more than the people that think like you.

And I just want to spend my money, I don't really care if you think it is wasteful or not.

And all of that is fine! I'm just saying that we can all coexist, and be happy, and kill each other in peace!

The only barrier I'm seeing is that for some reason you and the others think you lose value if I and those who think like me can't see your skins. I'm trying to make it clear that you don't! I will treat you the same regardless, so you have already lost whatever value you think you'd have gained from me. Therefore, there is only value to be gained, both for my enjoyment and for the developer's pockets, by giving me an option to hide them.

Sledgecrushr · 2012-05-06, 02:19 PM

Im really hoping that the dev team will vet these items before they get made and put into the cash shop. I dont want to see too much silliness either. Though it might be fun to say "Focus Fire the Lime green Max wearing the chicken suit!!"

Kipper · 2012-05-06, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm

And all of that is fine! I'm just saying that we can all coexist, and be happy, and kill each other in peace!

I agree. Just try to think bigger, the value goes down by the number of players who exercise the opt-out. If its just you, 0.01% or whatever then no biggie.

What if its 10%, or 25%? Or more than that? This how much potential revenue the game loses, there's no sense in investing costly developer-hours into something that will lose you money.

And, if it's just you - 0.01% - then I'm afraid you're still shit out of luck, because there's equally no sense spending time and money on a feature for a such a tiny minority.

Purple · 2012-05-06, 02:46 PM

i wont spend money on skins unless everyone is forced to see it. ill buy the skins so you will see my style in the kill recap. or be like that reaver with the sharkface just saved me from getting over run.

laelgon · 2012-05-06, 02:52 PM

Except that players won't know how many or which players have chosen to opt out unless SOE releases the numbers on it, which I can't imagine they'd ever do. I also don't imagine the players who opt out are going to spend tons of time talking it in game or on the forums, since they'll be happy playing the game the way they want. Frankly, if you're scared away from purchasing a vanity item because you think an unspecified number of people may not see it, you've got some problems outside of the game you need to deal with.

LostAlgorithm · 2012-05-06, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Kipper

I agree. Just try to think bigger, the value goes down by the number of players who exercise the opt-out. If its just you, 0.01% or whatever then no biggie.

What if its 10%, or 25%? Or more than that? This how much potential revenue the game loses, there's no sense in investing costly developer-hours into something that will lose you money.

And, if it's just you - 0.01% - then I'm afraid you're still shit out of luck, because there's equally no sense spending time and money on a feature for a such a tiny minority.

I'm not proposing an opt-out, I'm proposing a system that will allow you to pick and choose what skins show up. It's not an automatic loss in the least. I fully intend to make use of my own customizations while using the option to hide others.

And, one thing I've learned over the years is that if someone feels a certain way they most likely aren't alone. And the system would be designed that it could be used to hide different skins depending on each player's tastes.

i wont spend money on skins unless everyone is forced to see it. ill buy the skins so you will see my style in the kill recap. or be like that reaver with the sharkface just saved me from getting over run.

I don't care about your "style". Why would you punish the developers so pointlessly just because I potentially don't want to see the skin you picked out? Why are people so petty?

ArmedZealot · 2012-05-06, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by LostAlgorithm

I don't care about your "style". Why would you punish the developers so pointlessly just because I potentially don't want to see the skin you picked out? Why are people so petty?

It isn't punishing developers. They just wouldn't be providing a product worth buying.

Originally Posted by laelgon

Frankly, if you're scared away from purchasing a vanity item because you think an unspecified number of people may not see it, you've got some problems outside of the game you need to deal with.

"If you disagree with me you must be messed up in the head!"